The Voynich Ninja

I counted somehow Zodiac circles contain 79 successive figures in tubes. Actually, this sequence is begun in Pisces diagram and finishes in Taurus. Of course, I was interested what this number can represent in any sense. The first problem is that the number 79 doesn’t say too much as for its possible meaning, it is quite not frequent among sacred numbers. Therefore I began to think about the number 80 (80 days). I think it is possible if the first diagram (Pisces/March) must really contain 30 figures. Well, maybe, the author accidentally missed on figure or dropped it intentionally. In general, we can only guess but, supposing that the each "month" was to include 30 figures (days, degrees or another points), we get 80 successive tubes with human in it.
I agree that the term “days” is a little doubtful, as no one of diagrams contains 31 figures. Maybe, they are Lunar months and days or they are degrees equated to a number of days (actually, 79 degrees can be passed through 80 days of the year), at last, it can be another, not usual type of calendars. As always, we can only guess, the more that the last two diagrams are lost.
I tried to find any mention of 80 days (not counting "80 days around the World", of course J) and especially those that is somehow connected to liquids. My results:
1. In Judaic and Christian religion, a woman which gives birth to a boy was considered impure 40 days, that one who gives birth to a girl is impure twice as many, 80 days. Theoretically, if the VMs Zodiac section depicts a calendar for a particular woman recently confined a daughter, those figures may mean days of impurity and blood purification. Only on the expiry of this term woman could touch consecrated things and enter into the Temple, bringing of an atonement sacrifice.
This tradition was based on the Biblical texts such as The Book of Jubilees 3:8-14, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., etc.
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8.    In the first week was Adam created, and the rib -his wife: in the second week He showed her unto him: and for this reason the commandment was given to keep in their defilement, for a male seven days, and for a female twice seven days.
9.    And after Adam had completed forty days in the land where he had been created, we brought him into the garden of Eden to till and keep it, but his wife they brought in on the eightieth day, and after this she entered into the garden of Eden.
 
10. And for this reason the commandment is written on the heavenly tablets in regard to her that gives birth: 'if she bears a male, she shall remain in her uncleanness seven days according to the first week of days, and thirty and three days shall she remain in the blood of her purifying, and she shall not touch any hallowed thing, nor enter into the sanctuary, until she accomplishes these days which (are enjoined) in the case of a male child.
11. But in the case of a female child she shall remain in her uncleanness two weeks of days, according to the first two weeks, and sixty-six days in the blood of her purification, and they will be in all eighty days.'
12. And when she had completed these eighty days we brought her into the garden of Eden, for it is holier than all the earth besides and every tree that is planted in it is holy.
13. Therefore, there was ordained regarding her who bears a male or a female child the statute of those days that she should touch no hallowed thing, nor enter into the sanctuary until these days for the male or female child are accomplished.
14. This is the law and testimony which was written down for Israel, in order that they should observe (it) all the days.
We can see that, according to the above text, all this began from the Eden when Adam and Eve were created.
Some Rabbinic texts and Aristotle (*) suggested that a human fetus or, even, soul have been formed during 40 days (on the 41th day) after conception for male and -during 80 days (on the 81th day) for female.
(*) – I'm not sure that Aristotle mention exactly 80 days, as some sources say about 90 days. It must be checked later in a more or less primary source.
2. In some alchemical texts, 80 days is a period of making of the Lapis Philosophorum or the Elixir.
Peter Bonus in The New Pearl of Great Price (1338) wrote:
"The time required for the whole operation is stated by Rhasis to be one year; Rosinus fixed it at nine month; other at seven; others at forty, and yet others at eighty, days."
I suppose the last "others" could be rest exactly upon mentioned biblical texts - we know alchemy was always built on male-female relations, relations of opposites.
The famous among alchemists fable "The vision of Arisleus" also narrates about the term of eighty days.
The fragment from the "You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.":
… when the king [Arisleus] takes his advice and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.* and Gabricus** are united, Beya “embraced Gabricus with so much love that she absorbed him completely into her own nature, and divided him into indivisible parts” … In punishment for this apparently disastrous advice, Arisleus and his companions are imprisoned in a triple glass house, together with the corpse of the king's son. (This triple glass house is the alchemical retort.) They are enclosed in this glass vessel and subjected to intense heat and every kind of terror for eighty days… Arisleus and his companions see their master Pythagoras in a dream and beg him for help. He sends them his disciple Harforetus, “the author of nourishment.” This disciple brings Gabricus back to life with the miraculous food of life which resurrects him. Pythagoras then says to Arisleus: Ye write and have written down for posterity how this most precious tree is planted, and how he that eats of its fruits shall hunger no more. 
* - supposedly, from Arabic word with meaning “White”
** - Gabricus, Thabritius, Cabritus, Gabertin are different transliterations of the Arabic word for “Sulphur”.
This fable is a part of one of the earliest alchemical texts - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (ca. 900 AD?,), as well, it is considered earliest alchemical text in Latin, since it was translated from Arabic into Latin in 12th c., although originally it most likely was in Greek.
3. The last is shortest. It is from Chinese alchemy. I can’t comment it too much, as I am absolutely not familiar with its religion, traditions and alchemy. The matter is about The Scripture of the liquid pearl. While it is said to contain the mention of eighty one day, the number was translated as eighty.
“Smear the crucible with the Mud of the Six-and-One to a thikness of three-tenths of an inch both inside and outside. Let the crucible dry for ten days so that there are no leaks [of pneuma]. Heat it for eighty days over a fire of horse manure of chaff, and you will obtain a Golden Medicine (jinyao).” (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.)
Aditionally, the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. - The Cultivating Perfection: Mysticism and Self-Transformation in Early Quanzhen Daoism, Louis Komjathy.

I think I see the idea you were going for, an explanation of why only to taurus do we see people in their tubes, yes?

But, Ì don't see the connections between these mentions of 80 days (or 79 days, for that matter) and the number of people in tubes, other than the number itself. Why would such things be portrayed by people standing around in containers, without any other clue as to their context? In the case of the unclean mother idea, would it not show the same mother in 80 containers? Why are there men shown at all? Why are men shown after 40 days? In the case of alchemy or elixer, would not something of these be hinted at?  

I don't think they represent days at all. Each zodiac can be seen as an age instead of a month. In this way it could be that the tubes represent architecture, or civilization, or even just the town well. The nymphs past the point of generally accepted civilization eras are portrayed as nomadic. Even so, there are still a few tubes (knocked over) in subsequent ages, likely denoting discoveries of ancient civilisations in caves or buried in the ground. 

What would these further tubes be under the 80 days idea? I guess they would have to be extra days held in safekeeping? Subsequent heating of the elixer to be done at a later time? Optional, perhaps. If we are concerned with the 80 days, what are the rest of the days of the year there for, other than to fill up space? In the ages construct, they show an understanding that humanity has been around for longer than 6000 years.

I have seen records of 30-day sequences of lunar months (divided this way for convenience) in manuscripts.

I have often wondered if the postures of the nymphs might be symbolic for the different days that one can do things (get married, be born, have bloodletting, etc.) Manuscripts are full of lists of calendars for "good" and "bad" days to do things.

What would be an explanation for the knocked down tubes later in the sequence in the zodiac month view?

Why would only the spring months show clothed people in tubs, and why do they transition into naked people in tubs, then to naked people without tubs? 

In terms of the 80 days, why would these be anchored to certain times of the year? People have daughters all through the year. Why would men be shown, and why different people, wouldnt it show the same unclean mother for the 80 days?

I could see the preparation of an alchemical elixer being seasonal though. But then i still dont know why it would be depicted by various people in tubs and show no hint at the topic or its process.

Again in connection with the 80 days, what would the depiction of the rest of the year denote?

I do believe the poses mean something, both in the zodiac section and in quire 13.

Hi!
Linda, of course, I can't answer all your questions above! I just tried to understand what those 79 successive tubes can mean therefore searched for any similar number in a particular context to understand what they may imply. It doesn't look accidental, I mean, this sequence. The rest of the Zodiac contains only 4 tubes in two different places, in particular, two of them are under human's feet and another two are behind men. So, on my opinion, the place of tubes can't be accidental a priori. Could it be architecture, cities, etc? I don't know, but, as for me, it also hardly can be explained, at least, it seems not be easier.
I gathered all I found in my post, but you likely imagine that I'm inclined to consider alchemical context. You are right that men and women in different clothes are hardly associated with the time of impurity and purification for a woman. Although different men and women could be something like at this picture below, I after all doubt. But who knows!
 
Different look and gender of human figures can mean many different things, to identify them, we need to find exact match, and I'm not sure we will get it soon, although it would be great. 
Talking about alchemical context, I'd consider it more possible. Unfortunately, alchemy is not so easy thing, and it never was depicted so detailed, day by day. I must confess that all this is pretty interesting from that angle. Although we can see some men in the Zodiacal diagrams, we must note that in general the VMs, including the Quire 13 have pronounced feminine spirit. The zodiacal circles are not an exclusion. Pisces is feminine sign, 80 days refers rather to female in any sense (religious or alchemical). The story about Gabricus and Beya discribes an alchemical process which lasts 80 days, and this process is the feminine (Lunar) stage of the Great work. It includes blackness and whiteness (putrefaction and purification), the intermediate stage between them - peacock's tail. Beya ruled in that stage as she absorbed the groom to death in her embraces but due to this Gabricus was purified and became perfect. Clothes can mean a material shell which covers a soul, and then a soul purifies and gets away from it. Pay attention that almost always souls are depicted naked, for example,
Giovanni di Paolo - Divina Commedia, about 1444-50, detail from f.130

So, those 79 tubes may mean only first stage but the rest is another next stages, remeber about three crowns, to the point. No doubt, all this are only guesses anyway but all the pecularities, as I think, must not be unnoticed. Containers must contain something. If there would be tubes in september, octomber and further, I'd think about vine (barrels of vine) 

(09-03-2019, 10:54 PM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hi!
Linda, of course, I can't answer all your questions above! I just tried to understand what those 79 successive tubes can mean therefore searched for any similar number in a particular context to understand what they may imply. It doesn't look accidental, I mean, this sequence.

I agree, it should have meaning, but i cannot see how it would be if the time periods of the zodiacs are months. I am not saying it isnt but it is difficult, when i try to come up with an explanation it just ends up with more questiions. 

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 The rest of the Zodiac contains only 4 tubes in two different places, in particular, two of them are under human's feet and another two are behind men. So, on my opinion, the place of tubes can't be accidental a priori. Could it be architecture, cities, etc? I don't know, but, as for me, it also hardly can be explained, at least, it seems not be easier.

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For me the ages explanation works, in that they know many civilizations have come before them, even before those outlined in the Bible. The knocked down tubs the people stand on could be undergound caves, or excavations of items found buried in the ground. Where the are behind the people, perhaps it means abandonned. If you look at pisces, which would be the current age both then and now, it looks like they are showing floods knocking down the tubs, the green colouring makes me think sea water. I am not sure if this was a premonition or whether such things were occurring at the time, but being in the middle, it seems that is the first half of the age, just as in taurus the first half of the second part is where the clothing disappears. So i see the premonition being that humanity recovers from the flooding or whatever analogy that might stand for. It is our time that is shown around the outside ring. 

Quote:I gathered all I found in my post, but you likely imagine that I'm inclined to consider alchemical context. You are right that men and women in different clothes are hardly associated with the time of impurity and purification for a woman. Although different men and women could be something like at this picture below, I after all doubt. But who knows!
 

That is interesting, i see the commonalities with the zodiac people.

Quote:Different look and gender of human figures can mean many different things, to identify them, we need to find exact match, and I'm not sure we will get it soon, although it would be great. 

Yes i am not sure it will be possible but there do seem to be hints. I wonder if they would have been recognizeable at the time or whether they are literary references, or just vague analogies like people from all walks of life.

Quote:Talking about alchemical context, I'd consider it more possible. Unfortunately, alchemy is not so easy thing, and it never was depicted so detailed, day by day. I must confess that all this is pretty interesting from that angle. Although we can see some men in the Zodiacal diagrams, we must note that in general the VMs, including the Quire 13 have pronounced feminine spirit. The zodiacal circles are not an exclusion. Pisces is feminine sign, 80 days refers rather to female in any sense (religious or alchemical). The story about Gabricus and Beya discribes an alchemical process which lasts 80 days, and this process is the feminine (Lunar) stage of the Great work. It includes blackness and whiteness (putrefaction and purification), the intermediate stage between them - peacock's tail. Beya ruled in that stage as she absorbed the groom to death in her embraces but due to this Gabricus was purified and became perfect. Clothes can mean a material shell which covers a soul, and then a soul purifies and gets away from it. Pay attention that almost always souls are depicted naked, for example,
Giovanni di Paolo - Divina Commedia, about 1444-50, detail from f.130


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I did think that as well, within the context of the ages, these unclothed nymphs would be civilizations no longer extant. I am not sure if that is the same for quire 13, i think they show the contemporary cultures there, even though they are unclothed, but more for the reason as to remove local custom from the equation, treat them all the same.

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So, those 79 tubes may mean only first stage but the rest is another next stages, remeber about three crowns, to the point. No doubt, all this are only guesses anyway but all the pecularities, as I think, must not be unnoticed. Containers must contain something. If there would be tubes in september, octomber and further, I'd think about vine (barrels of vine) 

You are right, picking out the peculiarities and trying to explain them may lead us to better understanding, and even if the interpretation is incorrect, it still points out the peculiarities for someone else to consider in their interpretation.

To me they could be wells that hold water, since any city must have access to water for its population, and in many cases if the original water supply system can be identified, it can show how and where the community began to form. That the people are in them is just a duplicate use as architecture, since shelter is the next thing they will need.

If there were also clothed people in the containers in the fall, i could understand it to be related to agriculture, but for now if it not zodiac ages, i dont understand what is implied. All we can do is keep thinking about it.

Hi, I can't read the whole discussion for the moment, but given that two Zodiac signs are missing, the total would not be 79, would it?

(10-03-2019, 12:40 AM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hi, I can't read the whole discussion for the moment, but given that two Zodiac signs are missing, the total would not be 79, would it?

I think only the people in barrels are counted in that figure, if the trend holds there are likely none to be found in Capricorn and Aquarius, if they existed. 

But you never know...

(10-03-2019, 12:40 AM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hi, I can't read the whole discussion for the moment, but given that two Zodiac signs are missing, the total would not be 79, would it?

If the last two diagrams contained the depiction of humans in barrels, could they be considered successive to the rest 79 barrels at the beginning? It would be understandable if the sequence of zodiacal signs would be usual, but it is quite not usual (beginning with Pisces) and most likely intended. Therefore I think that, talking about the limited process in the limits of the annual term, it is hard to imagine direct relations between the beginning and the end, i. e., if the 12th diagram has humans in barrels, they can be quite another barrels. 
Even ten barrels found in Pisces differ from another nineteen, although I have a suposition for this. 
The added names of months, I think, are erroneus, and confuse readers. Quite possibly that the diagrams depict periods for every Sign, not usual months. For example, nowadays dates for the sign Pisces - 19 of February to 20 of March. At the whole, 30 days. So, ten days of the Sun in Pisces are in February. I still didn't check medieval division unfortunately, I'll try to check it later. Thus, those twenty barrels in Taurus last approximately from April to the 10th of May. Spring, winter and autumn signs contain of 30 days each, but the problem is that summer ones contain of 31 and 32 days. It must be another measure, not exact days of a year.

There is another parameter to consider here: in pisces and dark aries, the tubs are very ornate, except for two in dark aries.
Then in light aries there stilll are decorated tubs but the design is much more sparse, sometimes they are completely plain (I am not counting paint here, just the drawn designs on the tubs). 
By the time we reach dark taurus, the tubs are all plain, except for one which features an "arches" motif that seems to be a later addition in darker ink.
My first impression was that the artist originally planned to do the whole section like the first two pages, but this became really tedious and the program was simplified.
The problem with this explanation of course, is the sporadic reoccurrence of tubs later on, which does seem to indicate that their presence/absence is meaningful.