The Voynich Ninja

Index of Quire 13 posts of the past (as at Jan 4 2025)

Preamble

Basically this is the layout of a contiguous tour of the world by water, that is told in two parts, similar to Hecateus' Periodos Ges, but updated.

Postings need work, but am posting this index Jan 5 2025 to be able to continue over time.

A history of geography
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I find quire 13 to be similar to the work of Hecateus of Miletus because it is in two books. However it contains more updated info.

Periodos ges was written in two books, the first on Europe, the second on Asia, in which he included Africa. The book is a comprehensive work on geography beginning at the Straits of Gibraltar and going clockwise ending at the Atlantic coast of Morocco following the coast of the Mediterranean and Black Sea. Hecataeaus provides information about the people and places that would be encountered on a coastal voyage between these points, as well as the inhabitants of the various Mediterranean islands, the Scythians, Persia, India, Egypt and Nubia. Over 300 fragments of this work are preserved, mostly as citations for place names in the work of Stephanus of Byzantium.



I started this index a) because i wanted to keep everything in one thread from now on and i chose this one since i find it to continue to be relevant, and b) to give myself structure to keep things on track.

Hoping that the index itself lays out the idea of the contiguity of the world tour in absense of full outlines at present, and you can at least jump to the page to see if you can see what i am talking about. If not, ask, and I will try to update the one you ask about next.
If you have any questions feel free to ask. Jan 5 2025
Jan 5 2025 

Index of Quire 13 posts of the past (as at Jan 4 2024)
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as First Page of Quire 13 (no imagery) 
thread-659. Jan 5 2025. Just a blurb about the resemblance to numbers in the margin. 
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as Southern Portugal/Spain (Sagres Point, Guadiana River, Gibraltar Strait, Ceuta, Cadiz (Gualquivir River) 
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Jan 5 2025, needs work.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as Spanish/French/Italian Coast, Lake Garda
Will be updating after relooking. Jan 4 2025
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as the Alps, Lake Constance, Alpine Rhine 
Will be updating after relooking. Jan 4 2025
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as the Italian Peninsula (Appenine Peninsula)
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.  Jan 5 2025 needs some work, readable up to the Sicily nymph preamble at least.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as Illyria / Balkans (the other half of the Adriatic Sea)
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Jan 5 2025 needs some work, parts are hard to read due to bad editing
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as the Aegian Sea
Will be updating after relooking. Jan 4 2025
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as Lesbos (2 lagoons created by volcanic springs)
Will be updating after relooking. Jan 4 2025
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as the Sea of Marmora, Constantinople (central bifolio)(centre of the world)
Will be updating after relooking. Jan 4 2025

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f81r as the second half of the Sea of Marmora (central bifolio)
Will be updating after relooking. Jan 4 2025
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as the Sea of Azov (backwards)
I think it means go around, that's Europe, then come back here and continue to the Volga again, but go south to Asia.
Will be updating after relooking. Jan 4 2025
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as the Black Sea (Don River, Volga River (North), Baltic Sea, North Sea, Atlantic Ocean, Lisbon (  River)
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Jan 5 2025 needs some work but mostly readable
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as the Alboran, Balearic and Ligurian Seas (a revisiting on the way to start tour of Asia and Africa)
(the Western Mediterranean (again) Baltic Islands, Alps (again), Corsica, Sardinia (go back to Azov, Don, Volga South)
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Jan 5 2025 needs some work but mostly readable
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as the Caspian and Aral Seas (full)
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Jan 5 2025 needs some work but mostly readable, there is an unposted update also
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as Armenia (Araxis River, Lake Urmia (full), Lake Sevan)
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Jan 5 2025 needs new images
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as Mesopoamia (Euphrates, Tigris, Persian Gulf)
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Jan 5 2025 mostly readable, one image needs replacing. Can't edit. Okay to leave as is. Jan 5 2025
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as Gujurat, Aden, Red Sea
Will be updating after relooking. Jan 4 2025
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as Red Sea, Canal, Nile
Will be updating after relooking. Jan 4 2025
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as Source of Nile
Will be updating after relooking. Jan 4 2025

[attachment=10027]

I have put the comparison diagrams through an image rotator to better compare. The first is rotated clockwise, the second counter clockwise. I have added -10 in both cases for declination, although I am not sure if it was correct, it was in 1590. It seems to be pretty close to correct in terms of the comparisons.

In both cases, the streams connecting things together are nonliteral, they just show that the two are connected in some way, rivers have run between them, or they enjoy the same fresh water supply, and likely they have been moved in order to fit them on the page, at least that seems to be the case here. If they are beside, they are moved to below, close to the edge of the page of the side they were on. Also, sizes even on the same pages aren't comparable, in both cases the small example has been enlarged in comparison to the larger example, in differing amounts, and the second example has much smaller examples than the smaller one on the first was.

In the top case, it does seem to put things better near the top, but the whole bottom bulbish end of what would be the Caspian Sea would need to turn further clockwise by 45 degrees again, while the rest stays in place, in order to match overall. In fact, now having the ability to compare better, the nymph floating there in that direction says this. Put her staight up like the others, but take the whole drawing to do that. And match the land, not the water line. I think it shows exactly where to draw the water line, though. You can then see that the top left item below the top part where the green should not have been painted (see that there is a solid diagonal line drawn where the shoreline actually is)(you may need to click on the highlighted folio number to see this better). The top left item under this top part of the Danube delta is analogous with mountains, and it rains from them into the river systems in the lowlands. The nymph on the bottom sits in a natural (possibly man maintained) protected bay. The east side of this is the current shore, and if you go to the other nymph above, she seems to show with her leg where the shoreline is on that side, which at the 45 degree turn is in fact a diagonal line, like her leg, but as it is already on an angle due to having to turn the nymph, the bottom section is actually drawn north up on the page. So the line would be vertical to the back end of the lower nymph, except for what looks like a kick in the shoreline where the upper nymph's foot would be. Makes for a realistic map if you can remember all that while drawing, which you would if you had quire 13 with you at the time. The stick, by the way, is a finial without a top, which indicates a volcano with no top, and in fact there are mud volcanoes in the vicinity of Baku, the point nearby.

They have already found settlements in dried out areas of the Aral Sea, so it has been dry before, as it is now, but is drawn filled here. Both are drawn green due to the salt nature of these seas.

The second case continues from the southeastern Caspian Shore, the Kura-Araxes delta, and follows it back to a point where it splits in the middle. A tributary flows downward between Lake Van on the left and Lake Urmia on the right (it is drawn full, or possibly empty, but is empty now after having been full only 30 years ago or so. This diagram doesn't show the full extent as the bump shown is actually an island when shown full. However now that it has emptied we can see that the intact island and the smaller islands are the same type of mound, which turns out to be dormant volcano. The finials in the blue section stand for these, along with the rays extending outwards from them. Notice the left one is drawn a little higher with a circular top, while the one corresponding to the broken up smaller one is drawn shorter with a three pronged or spike on a ball motif, either of which can be thought of as to describe the nature of these islands. 

The second drawing should be viewed as though what is shown is in the top half only, actually the line in the diagram just above Lake Van. But I believe that Lake Van is also discussed in the second drawing and the blue part does triple duty as Urmia, Urmia and Van, and Urmia and Sevan in terms of the mnemonics for drawing a true to life map. Notice that it is Urmia for a few reasons, one is that the finials match the islands, that Urmia means wavy or undulating, and it is at the same leftover angle after taking the 45 and 10 degrees into account. I can't imagine this being explained as anything other than sloppy drawing for a balnealogical or other theory (since the water stays put), but I think it is purposeful now that I see how well it matches with reality.

Lake Sevan is also correctly oriented but again, the stream is non literal, it has been moved from the left (in the 45 degree layout) enlarged, and moved to below left, just like the Aral Sea on the preceding page was moved to its mirror corner.

Note that where the Araxes rises, the Euphrates also rises nearby, and similar for the Tigris and the tributary between Lakes Urmia and Van. I mention this as the next page to properly follow this one is f79r, which shows these two rivers going into the Persian Gulf. 

But I will continue to describe them as they are now, with mentions of the ones that come before and after. The one that comes before You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is f82r, although it is one of two non contiguous pages in the quire as it revisits a place previously seen, in order to show that from the Black Sea you can go north or east, and it is the east route to follow to get to the Volga River, then south to the Caspian Sea, which starts the Asia/Africa tour, after the north route took us back to where we started in southwest Europe. 

Note that Sevan is a freshwater lake, whereas both Urmia and Van are endorheic saltwater lakes. I think that is why the blue one is mostly Urmia but describes only the fresh water that replenishes it, as most is lost to evaporation, at least today, as it is now dry. 
In a way the blue denotes sky water which showers upon the earth and creates a saltwater Lake, but for both of them. In the end there are two bodies drawn so I think of it as Urmia and Van. 

So to draw all this you would memorize where the Araxes joins the Caspian Sea, draw it as per the vms Araxes, add a curved bend, then continue on straight to the left, about the same distance as the short part of the Araxes, then downward at an angle to the left for another two short distances. Half a short distance up and out from that would be the rise of the Ephrates. The tributary joins at the bend, again about the short length of the Araxes. Half short distance down and away starts the Tigris. Urmia is to the left of the tributary, In the angle shown. If you draw a line from the tributary end to the first short distance in the Araxes to the left of the join, you have the line on which Urmia and Van mirror each other in their longest orientations, Sevan is on this line at the top. Then just add a bit of bulk to Van on the lower right.

I wonder if these are the instructions written in the text, just all about drawing each page's mnemonics to create a realistic map.
I think the 45 degree angles are just obfuscations to keep from untrained eyes from recognizing the shapes too easily. Other obfuscations are the nymphs, which make the drawings look like smaller vessels or baths, and the additional 3d shading which further makes the drawings look like containers and not the large bodies of water that they seem to me to be meant to portray.

Just came across this drawing of the Cortona Chart Black Sea and noticed similarities with f82r!





Ignore the Sea of Azov at the top of the drawing, as it is not in the vms drawing on f82r.
I think that is a pretty good comparison. It includes the tilt and everything.
The lower drawing goes on to compare the true geographical form of the Black Sea and Azov.

Also, it is now thought that all the early portolans had a common ancestor. It would seem that the vms Black Sea follows this tradition, of the Cortona Chart in particular.

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Abstract

Anonymous Carte Pisane (c. 1275) and Cortona chart (c. 1300), as well as Pietro Vesconte's charts, made in 1311 and 1313, which represent some of the earliest known portolan charts, were cartometrically analysed to examine the geometric similarities between their coastal renderings. The research results show that not only the majority of their territorial coverage was drawn very similarly to each other but also that certain parts of the coastline are nearly identical between all the examined charts. Also, the magnitude and orientation of displacement vectors of residuals revealed that the Mediterranean and Black Sea areas on charts contain seven subsections which are on average, twice as accurate in comparison to the same area treated as a whole. The fundamental conclusion is that there is a high probability that the coastline renderings on the earliest known portolan charts are, actually, more or less skilfully made copies of the same source material used as a graphic template. The hypothetical source might have been an atlas whose origins date back to before the Middle Ages, containing charts whose extents were, perhaps, similar to the extents of detected subsections, which medieval cartographers were not able to assemble correctly due to their ignorance of map projections.

That's a really poor representation of the Black Sea, and that might be just what we should expect. Historically, early in the reign of Philip the Good of Burgundy, an emissary was sent from the Netherlands, up to the Hanseatic League. He traveled on to Russia, then down river to the Black Sea, into the Mediterranean and back to Dijon. He was mentioned in Richard Vaughan's Philip the Good. Imagine making that journey and mapping that terrain when so much was second-hand information. That's why the boundaries are drawn with nebuly lines, because it was known and needed to be indicated that these boundaries were very imprecise. If all he did was sail from Kaffa to Constantinople, what would he know of the shape of the shoreline? Only what he was told.

Any indication that the nymphs are personifications of the major cities? Weren't they mostly on the southern shore?

Quote:That's a really poor representation of the Black Sea, and that might be just what we should expect. Historically, early in the reign of Philip the Good of Burgundy, an emissary was sent from the Netherlands, up to the Hanseatic League. He traveled on to Russia, then down river to the Black Sea, into the Mediterranean and back to Dijon. He was mentioned in Richard Vaughan's Philip the Good. Imagine making that journey and mapping that terrain when so much was second-hand information. That's why the boundaries are drawn with nebuly lines, because it was known and needed to be indicated that these boundaries were very imprecise. If all he did was sail from Kaffa to Constantinople, what would he know of the shape of the shoreline? Only what he was told.

Any indication that the nymphs are personifications of the major cities? Weren't they mostly on the southern shore?

Thanks for the reply! I agree, it is likely the worst of the early portolan chart Black Seas.

Here are others, pretty much all completely recognizable. 


Here is some more detail on some emmisaries of Philip the Good. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

They mostly went by land, it appears, they used the rivalry between Venice and Genoa as an excuse to have avoided going by sea. 
By the way, if that sounds like a lot of travel, my uncle has made biking expeditions from Amsterdam to Prague, another to Constance (He was aiming for Rome but broke his leg and had to go home) and is planning other such expeditions (he is over 70).

But yes, in those times they certainly did not have the resources we do now to know where they were going. 

The nebuly lines, I have had a couple of connections come up, yours could be one, another is alignment with the Tabula Peutingeriana, although all water is so, not just the Black Sea.

Another is this particular rendition in a portolan chart, unfortunately it is Anonymous, but known to have been made in Genoa. It has a likeness to the Cortona in being drawn too large in proportion to the rest. I don't know, could be a clue in there somewhere. Others from Genoa have used this bubbly sort of nebuly style also.
 
This might be inherent in the fact that coastlines are not drawn to life, they are instead connected dots of long distance connections between places. They have found there are more errors and discrepancies in short distance notations than in the long ones (which conversely one would think would be easier to get wrong). So the nebulosity might be a commentary on this phenomenon, or a result of it. 

Just found this comparison of the Cortona chart and data points from Lo Conpasso da Navegare, a portolan from c. 1250 from which many have created charts and maps. It would seem this also fits with the vms portrayal of the Black Sea. But that includes a lot of stuff back in, in terms of figuring out what the vms creators had seen in particular.



In terms of the nymphs, they could well align with cities. Following the Genoa track it would seem there are quite a few likenesses to be had with their situations.



I also think that f81 precedes f82 in the original ordering as well as the current one. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is a backwards Azov, mirror image in both page placement and direction of drawing, i think partially as obfuscation and partially as a narrative, as in, 'go around and come back here', before the next bifolio starts the Asia Africa tour with the Caspian Sea on f75. F81r is the second half of a larger drawing that includes f78v, if you ignore the non literal streams and attach the two smaller bodies to the larger one, you get something like the Sea of Marmora, note how in the drawings above, that is how it is drawn also, and by association, it references Constantinople, and puts it at the centerfold of the world.  F78r depicts the two bays in Lesbos, hey look, it is another established Genoan holding, near the entrance to the Sea of Marmora. It is all contiguous.

So, from the perspective of a traveler like Lannoy - out on the Black Sea and sailing to Constantinople. He can barely get the general contours of the shoreline into a recognizable shape. What use is such a map? What information can it provide? And that would be the names and general locations of the major port cities.

Looking at the VMs Black Sea nymphs, one of the obvious standouts is the nymph in the middle of the bottom row holding a ring. Is she a personification of the city of Sinope? Interesting also that these nymphs are named / labelled / accompanied by vords. The apparent or potential combination of bathing nymphs and vords occurs in various places. At the same time, there are also multiple examples of nymphs bathing sans labels. Do other labelled examples show up in your investigations?

I take the rings in quire 13 to denote other empires than the one that appears to be of interest. The large opening in the nebulous design seems to be analogous with the Sinope promontory and the bay it makes with promontory to the east. As it was until 1265 under various other rulers, and Turkish thereafter, it likely refers to the Ottoman Empire which had by 1400 taken over most of the area. It could denote an area more to the west of Sinope but by then this area had also been taken over, and only Constantinople remained of the Byzantine empire, which is denoted by the other large nymph with a flower headdress to the left of the blue one. I could not find an example of the blue headdress but Constantinople is evidently known since at least the time of Pliny with regard to roses of various kinds.



I don't know what the labels mean. The label near the one that is standing in the Danube Delta is on various flower, circle, zodiac, text only, "recipe" and other quire 13 pages, except the one with what I think of as the Danube! But it is the same name as the nymph i think stands for Genoa, on f80r, so that might mean something, especially since she also holds a spindel that i think of as matching the one at the Danube Delta, indicating an alternate way to travel than through the Sea of Marmora to the Mediterranean. The Sinope label is a one of, does not occur elsewhere. Constantinople, one of. The second word with it, 25 times, again in a lot of different pages. The one above that, in the cosmos drawing in what would be the water section, and in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in what seems to me to be Lake Urmia. The next one, all over the place. Next one, not so many but roots and stars mainly. The label near the waterfall that would be the strait between the Sea of Azov and the Black Sea is a one of. The label for the nymph in blue water is a one of, could be Georgia, Colchis, or a town at the river Delta. Currently it is Poti, on the Phasis or Rioni river. The Argonauts would have sailed here.

From wiki: After many years of uncertainty and academic debate, the site of this settlement now seems to be established, thanks to underwater archaeology under tough conditions. Apparently, the lake which the well-informed Ancient Greek author Strabo reported as bounding one side of Phasis has now engulfed it, or part of it. 

This matches what has been drawn, which I take to be a freshwater lake in a river delta, or a freshwater port of the sea, which is why it seems like a separate part of the sea, but is not to scale, so it is a bit of obfuscation.

Rightmost small nymph, zodiac, plants, recipes, and also at the top of the page. Similar but more for the next one, the third one toward the middle is a one of. Those three seem to equate with Trebizond. It is interesting that in one of the portolan charts in the previous message shows three red names in that area, amongst the black ones, but I can't read the names in that photo.

You’ve done an enormous amount of work, Linda!  I’ve tried, but I’m afraid I still can’t follow it all. It’s too bad we don’t live in the same city, I’d love to go over it all in person. If you’re ever in Vancouver, Canada, drop me an email!

(05-03-2025, 10:48 PM)Barbrey Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You’ve done an enormous amount of work, Linda!  I’ve tried, but I’m afraid I still can’t follow it all. It’s too bad we don’t live in the same city, I’d love to go over it all in person. If you’re ever in Vancouver, Canada, drop me an email!

Hey Barbrey! Good to hear from you again! Thanks for the compliment! Maybe we can figure something out. I've left you a pm.

I think my next post will be the one I should have started with years ago, it is a visual key to quire 13. Even if people don't agree with my identifications, I think it might be useful for everyone to a) notice them and b) think about what they are with regard to their own opinions of what the quire is about.