The Voynich Ninja

Hello! Sorry for the English (use google translator):

* If in the 3rd ring (counting from the center) there are 18 symbols (which are repeated 4 times) (see You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.) and assigned numbers from 0 to 17, a significant number appears in the 1st ring: 531 (at the height of the neck of the man with the face that does not hold anything in the hand)

531/18 = 29.5 → moon synodic period

18 → lunar months
531 → days corresponding to the 18 lunar months. Period in which 4 total solar eclipses or 4 total lunar eclipses can occur, a quartet of total eclipses at regular intervals of 6 lunar months

* As I understand, in the fifteenth century (in 1493-1494) there were 4 total lunar eclipses in 2 years, every 6 months (tetrad)

* In the central drawing there are 4 men, 2 of them hide → eclipse?
* The stretched arms can symbolize a sun-earth-moon alignment (eclipse)
* The men who hide themselves have both arms stretched → tetrad of lunar eclipses?

f57v: Can it be a contraption related to the lunar cycle to predict eclipses, among other things?

A greeting!
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Hola! Perdón por el inglés (uso traductor de google):

* Si en el 3er anillo (contando desde el centro) hay 18 símbolos (que se repiten 4 veces) (ver You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.) y se le asignan números del 0 al 17, aparece un número significativo en el 1er anillo: El 531 (a la altura del cuello del hombre con la cara vista que no sostiene nada en la mano)

531/18 = 29,5 → Periodo sinódico luna

18 → meses lunares
531 → días correspondientes a los 18 meses lunares. Periodo en el que pueden ocurrir 4 eclipses solares totales o 4 eclipses lunares totales, un cuarteto de eclipses totales en intervalos regulares de 6 meses lunares

* Según tengo entendido, en el siglo XV (en 1493-1494) hubo 4 eclipses lunares totales en 2 años, cada 6 meses (tétrada)

* En el dibujo central hay 4 hombres, 2 de ellos se ocultan → ¿eclipse?
* Los brazos estirados pueden simbolizar una alineación de sol-tierra- luna (eclipse)
* Los hombres que se ocultan tienen ambos brazos estirados → ¿tétrada de eclipses lunares?

f57v : ¿Puede tratarse de un artilugio relacionado con el ciclo lunar para predecir eclipses, entre otras cosas?

Un saludo!

Quote: a significant number appears in the 1st ring: 531 (at the height of the neck of the man with the face that does not hold anything in the hand)

Hi isa_ou, and welcome to the forum!

Why do you think that the "number" is 531? In the third ring, you associate r with 3, while in the first ring you associate s with 3. That does not appear consistent.

(27-02-2018, 09:40 AM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Quote: a significant number appears in the 1st ring: 531 (at the height of the neck of the man with the face that does not hold anything in the hand)

Hi isa_ou, and welcome to the forum!

Why do you think that the "number" is 531? In the third ring, you associate r with 3, while in the first ring you associate s with 3. That does not appear consistent.

Hello Anton.
It seems to me the same symbol in both cases but it is a personal appreciation. Of course I can be wrong
A greeting!

It is sometimes difficult to distinguish EVA-r from EVA-s but there are also many places in the main text where those two symbols are distinctly different.

(27-02-2018, 10:29 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It is sometimes difficult to distinguish EVA-r from EVA-s but there are also many places in the main text where those two symbols are distinctly different.

Sure, but in this case I think I could be persuaded that this is the same symbol but with just some writing variation, perhaps because of the angle it is written at, if the system explained other things as well.

However this idea requires the numbers '11' through '17' to have additional different symbols, which doesn't happen in any number system AFAIK. Also what about the numbers '0' and '1' to the right of '17' and the numbers '3' '15' '1' '6' '5' etc on the right (above the 'sinodico lunar' in the first image)? These should have plausinble explanations within the same system.

Nonetheless the idea is interesting, I do think the lunar month does appear in the VMS, though not (necessarily) here.

isa_ou wrote:

Quote:* If in the 3rd ring (counting from the center) there are 18 symbols (which are repeated 4 times) (see You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.) and assigned numbers from 0 to 17, a significant number appears in the 1st ring: 531 (at the height of the neck of the man with the face that does not hold anything in the hand)

Hi!
I have a remark: if 18 numbers (symbols) mean 18 lunar months, why the count begins from zero? Why to count to the number 17, not to 18, moreover, 4 times?
Thanks Nick for his assumtion that 17*4 symbols can really be masked 18*4, and thank you for mentioning of this. I always thought that there must be number 72 (18x4), but still couldn't venture to suppose that it is possible. I tried to compare this diagram to the central rosette of the Rosettes page as it contains 72 pipes. The problem is that those 72 pipes are grouped 12 times of 6 pipes, not like on the f57v. In the same time, the central rosette connects four flows in four directions. I have no idea how it can be explained right now, but I feel both diagrams are somehow related. 
One can find many meanings and properties of the number 72 in the Bible, Cabala, mythology, in modern esoterism and astronomy. I couldn't find what it may mean divided into four. 
Hence it is interesting how many separate values is in the first row (counting from "o" to "y"): 27, 28, 30?

Hello again and thanks everyone for your comments!

Based on the fact that I am not an expert in anything, just an ordinary person, I decided to publish this comment because it seemed a coincidence that it can mean something if on this page You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. the numbers 18 and 531 appear

If the author of the book wants to hide information, he can not put very obvious things that make it easy to decipher or even so complex that he can not do it over time.

So it seems logical to camouflage the 18 characters with a line that seems to have added (and protruding from the ring) to look like 17. The number 18 is more striking than the 17, so you can make some information evident (18 * 4 = 72 and 18 * 20 = 360), as it refers to days of the year for example or that can be 18 lunar months and that refers to a lunar account.

Seeing a wheel with characters that are repeated I guess I'm not the only one who can think that they can be numbers. If 18 are lunar months of course it would be more logical to start with "1" and up to "18". More logical and more evident too. It's the first thing I did to see if significant numbers appeared in the rest of the image. Those 3 characters that are after the 4 "words" or "dates" or whatever in the 1st ring caught my attention because, in addition, they are quite highlighted. From 1 to 18, 642 came out and does not tell me anything. Then immediately and playing I try to start at 0 and up to 17 and that number becomes 531 a coincidence? It may not be consistent to number from 0 to 17 but ... can not it be another camouflage maneuver by the author of information that would be obvious?

As for the character is in one case EVA-r and another EVA-s ... In a manuscript language I do not think that the characters have to be always well defined. I have quite a bad handwriting and when I write fast some characters get confused with others. A few people have told me that my "5" looks like "s" for example. In fact the character that I have put as number "9" in the image is quite different in the 4 times that appears in that ring, for example.
It is true that the rest of the numbers that come out substituting the numbers I propose to me do not tell me anything. The most likely thing is that I am wrong but I wanted to comment because it seemed a curious coincidence and in case someone gives me a new idea or sees something that I do not see.

Sorry for the roll and for the English. Regards!
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Hola de nuevo y gracias a todos por vuestros comentarios!

Partiendo de la base de que no soy experta en nada, simplemente una persona normal y corriente, decidí publicar este comentario porque me pareció una coincidencia que puede significar algo si en esta página You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. aparecen los números 18 y 531

Si el autor del libro quiere ocultar una información no puede poner cosas muy evidentes que hagan que se descifre fácilmente ni tampoco tan complejas que ni el mismo pueda hacerlo pasado el tiempo.

Así me parece lógico que camufle los 18 caracteres con un trazo que parece haber añadido posteriormente (y que sobresale del anillo) para que parezcan 17. El número 18 llama más la atención que el 17, de forma que puede hacer evidente alguna información (18*4=72 y 18*20=360), como que se refiera a días del año por ejemplo o que puedan ser 18 meses lunares y que se refiera a una cuenta lunar.

Viendo una rueda con caracteres que se repiten supongo que no soy la única a la que se le ocurre que puedan ser números. Si 18 son meses lunares claro que sería más lógico que empezasen en “1” y hasta “18”. Más lógico y más evidente también. Es lo primero que hice para ver si aparecían números significativos en el resto de la imagen. Esos 3 caracteres que están a continuación de las 4 “palabras” o “fechas” o lo que sea en el 1er anillo llamaron mi atención porque, además, están bastante remarcados. Del 1 al 18 me salía el 642 que no me dice nada. Pues acto seguido y jugando pruebo a empezar en 0 y hasta 17 y ese número se convierte en el 531 ¿una coincidencia? Puede no ser coherente numerar de 0 a 17 pero… ¿no puede ser acaso otra maniobra de camuflaje del autor de una información que sería evidente?

En cuanto a que el carácter sea en un caso EVA-r y en otro EVA-s… En un lenguaje manuscrito no me parece que los caracteres tengan porque estar siempre bien definidos. Yo tengo bastante mala letra y cuando escribo rápido unos caracteres se confunden con otros. Unas cuantas personas me han dicho que mis “5” le parecen “s” por ejemplo. De hecho el caracter que he puesto como número “9” en la imagen es bastante distinto en las 4 veces que aparece en ese anillo, por ejemplo.

Cierto es que el resto de números que salen sustituyendo por los números que propongo a mí no me dicen nada. Lo más seguro es que esté equivocada pero quise comentarlo porque me pareció una coincidencia curiosa y por si a alguien le da una idea nueva o ve algo que yo no veo.

Perdón por el rollo y por el inglés. Saludos!

I believe that the symbols were meant to be read as 17, not 18. In particular, what isa_ou labeled 13 and 14 look like a single symbol to me.

18*4=72 would be easier to interpret. For instance, it would match the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. discussed in this book by Lance Jenott about "The gospel of Judas". This of course would result in 4 seasons of 18 weeks each (matching the four persons in f57v) and a 360 days year (matching the star-nymphs in the zodiac section). 

Still, the symbols in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. seem to me to have been carefully separated and I find it hard to believe that the complete cycle is something different from 17*4=68.

Quote:Based on the fact that I am not an expert in anything, just an ordinary person, I decided to publish this comment because it seemed a coincidence that it can mean something if on this page You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. the numbers 18 and 531 appear

It's perfectly OK to share your suggestions (that's what the forum is for!), and there are many people here who are not experts in anything Voynich-related (myself included!), so that's also not a problem Without being an expert in-depth, one still can apply observation, logic and solid reasoning, those are common tools available to all.

Regarding considerations avove exressed, there certainly are systems in existence where numbers greater that nine are represented by single characters, e.g. the hexadecimal numbering system where we have A for 10 through F for 15. But this is something not from 15th century or older.

A dedicated symbol for zero, as to my knowledge, was not used back then in Europe, although in India it was used from the end of the first millennium AD. However, it is indeed strange to use zero as the first position in numbering. Nowadays, this approach is commonly used e.g. in programming, but, again, that's not something from the Renaissance era or earlier.

Last, I agree that the number of characters in 17. However lucrative it is to consider it 18. There are several instances in the VMS where the number of objects is not, so to say, what one would like it to be. The obvious exception is the "Voynich moons" diagram, where one would expect 12 moons, and they are twelve indeed.

(28-02-2018, 03:52 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Regarding considerations avove exressed, there certainly are systems in existence where numbers greater that nine are represented by single characters, e.g. the hexadecimal numbering system where we have A for 10 through F for 15. But this is something not from 15th century or older.

Well yes, hex obviously, but that is late 19th Century. I should have written something like 'in any number system which evolved naturally', as opposed to one invented by mathematicians. Particularly the rather odd base-18. The common bases are 5.10,12,20 and 60, and even the Mayans constructing symbols for 1-19 built them up logically, e.g. the symbol for 12 is the symbol for 2 over the symbol for 10.

Of course this proposed system is not really base-18 at all, or 531 would be 1-11-9. So it's just a simple substitution.

(28-02-2018, 03:52 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.A dedicated symbol for zero, as to my knowledge, was not used back then in Europe, although in India it was used from the end of the first millennium AD.

Early 13th C. in Europe or threabouts, see Fibonacci and Sacrobosco. So that would be OK in the VMS.