The Voynich Ninja

(15-12-2016, 12:53 AM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.... hence the cross in nymph's hands on the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. may mean a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..

These pictures are of 16 century, but the staff itself is appeared in 14 c.
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Food for thought, as always.

Very nice, Searcher. To be able to see a cross shape and not assume that it must be the Christian cross, that is a rare gift. 

It's a good idea to try and see some larger picture in the objects. Various stages of spinning is most likely one theme. I would personally relate this to the Platonic thought of the heavens as revolving like a spindle. 

That would make it very likely that astronomical instruments is another. Diane also thinks that the cross and some other items refer to such tools.

Now as a matter of personal interest, I believe that the cross nymph as a whole refers to the constellation Argo Navis, and probably its star Canopus in particular. This is one of the most prominent features of the night sky, ever close to the horizon. I know it was often used by mariners because of that, but haven't looked into tools yet. I wonder if there would be a reason to depict something like a cross staff here.

Searcher, those cross-staff pics are excellent examples.

Yes, really nice, I've had some time to check out the links you provided. The Egyptian site even has an image of a cruciform carving, believed to be a Ptolemaic era measuring instrument. I think this was the same one Diane was referring to, but I had never seen a parallel this clear.



The pictures you found are convincing since they show that the tool was still know and used, or perhaps reinvented? in medieval times, and they offer a very satisfying parallel for the pose.

I've been assuming that the caliper-like item she's holding is one item (connected at the top), mostly from the way she's holding it (it looks like she's holding one arm and the other one hangs as it does because it's attached). But just in case it's two, this strange appliance might be of interest...

It's called a strigil and was a bathing accessory (for scraping dirt and oils off the body).

This one is on a chain (perhaps for hanging it in a bath-house), but they were not always attached to a chain. Unlike calipers, the two points don't face each other, so it may not be a good candidate for the VMS implement, but I thought it worth mentioning...



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Here's another pair, with sharper points: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

JKP, what you show here is the Roman version of a Strigil. To me it looks like two on a cord, cause it is always one item.
You can not use it in the form you show it here!

normally in  Austria, Germany, & Switserland in the 15th century the single form Strigil is used.

The cup is another item for bathing as you know. Also a bit useless with the cord attached.
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You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.  shows a better image of a Strigil

Most of the time you need another person to scrape dirt or oil from the skin, used sideways as gentle scraper.

@linda: according to me,  the item in her hand is a sickle.

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David, you're correct in that strigils were usually used singly (or so it appears in the ancient pottery that shows athletes using them to scrape their skin).

But what if the nymph were a bath girl, as were common in the middle ages, who is holding a strigil set (they were often chained together), then it MIGHT be depicted as it is in the VMS. I still think the VMS image  looks more like pincers or calipers (or pointy tongs), but I like to keep ideas on the table, so here's another strigil pair, combined with oil pot:

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Yes, i agree they are more like pincers. But I still think it is a thingie to get a baby foetus, see the other thread somewhere.

But about the strigil often chained together: 

In all my (bathing) research I never come across a set of 2 strigils or one or more chained together.
As I said I focused on these three countries.

When you argue they are quite often chained, that is perhaps in another region.
You picture shows, again, a very impractical chaining.  It seems to me they are de-attached before use.

PS. Have you wondered how practical and nice a cold chain on the hot flesh is ?

(15-12-2016, 04:26 PM)Davidsch Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Yes, i agree they are more like pincers. But I still think it is a thingie to get a baby foetus, see the other thread somewhere.

But about the strigil often chained together: 

In all my (bathing) research I never come across a set of 2 strigils or one or more chained together.
As I said I focused on these three countries.

When you argue they are quite often chained, that is perhaps in another region.
You picture shows, again, a very impractical chaining.  It seems to me they are de-attached before use.

PS. Have you wondered how practical and nice a cold chain on the hot flesh is ?

I don't think it's very practical to use a metal tong-blade for cleaning the skin, but apparently it was widely used.  

One of the things that turned up in my research, despite the fact that Greek vases show athletes using the strigil on themselves, is that bath girls were often the ones who poured the water, added the herbs, laid on the oil, and used the strigil to scrape the bather's skin. Maybe some of these strigils hung from a waistband when not in use. Maybe some of the strigils that still survive used to be in pairs, but the other parts, which are sometimes fragile (like some of the finer chains) have been separated from them over time. Here's one that looks like it You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (there's a metal part that has corroded away), and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..

I'm not trying to argue that it was practical to use two. I'm only putting forth some of the things I discovered when reading about them and suggesting if a bath lady were holding them between clients, she might have a pair.

If you look at page 124 You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., there is an inventory of antique strigils, with many of them described as pairs and some as calipers.

Again, my arguments are:

1) I never saw it in the literature and images here. read about 1500 pages on bathing culture.
2) How can you use TWO which are attached that is like using two toothbrushes at the same time. One in your nose and one on the teeth.
3) how nice is the chain, or how impractical is that. .. ..I was talking about the chain on the flesh. have you ever felt a chain on your flesh?