The Voynich Ninja

Hi MarcoP,
Sorry I should have included the link to the other thread in my OP. Here it is:
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And thanks for the clarification on the Dragon constellation/Caput Draconis... and the coin illustration... I wonder if that is a pleiades or what?

Interesting coin, Marco. Do let us know if you find out what it means

(17-11-2016, 12:59 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Interesting coin, Marco. Do let us know if you find out what it means

Apparently the moon with seven stars was a very popular motif in circa the 2nd to 4th centuries of Roman rule. I can't remember how many emperors used it, but I think it was around four or five of them. Sometimes there were fewer stars (sometimes only one), but often seven.

But I don't know if the symbology is meant to designate Pleiades, or the number of "stars" in the solar system (this seems possible since moon + seven stars equaled their concept of our solar system at the time), or a mystical number, or something else.

The seven-stars motif appeared on coins before imperial age. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. It is interesting that on one side of his coin there's the Moon with seven stars, on the other, a personification of the Sun. A very cosmological coin


You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. gives other examples by Lucius Lucretius Trio (76 BC) and Publius Clodius (42 BC, with five stars).

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. provides an excellent explanation for the seven stars:
The stars are the Septem Triones (Ursa major), a pun of the moneyer cognomen.

So, at least in the case of Trio, the Seven Stars are the Ursa Major constellation.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., so while the Persians saw Ursa Major as made up of seven bears, the Romans saw it as seven oxen.

(01-11-2016, 02:14 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....

In medieval geomantic illustrations, the constellations (and other celestial objects) are represented/symbolized with dots that look like the patterns on domino bricks and several of them use seven dots arranged in different ways. The number seven is certainly not limited to Pleiades.
...

This is not true.

In You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.SOMETIMES the constellations are used, however most of the time there is another basis for the geomantic figures. 
It is also an misunderstanding that these are always dots. That is not true. Dots appear quite often, but it can also be a pen stroke, an illustration, grains, sand etc.

In my experience, it occurs quite often that libraries are unaware that they have books on geomancy.

(15-12-2016, 03:18 PM)Davidsch Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(01-11-2016, 02:14 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....

In medieval geomantic illustrations, the constellations (and other celestial objects) are represented/symbolized with dots that look like the patterns on domino bricks and several of them use seven dots arranged in different ways. The number seven is certainly not limited to Pleiades.
...

This is not true.

In You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.SOMETIMES the constellations are used, however most of the time there is another basis for the geomantic figures. 
It is also an misunderstanding that these are always dots. That is not true. Dots appear quite often, but it can also be a pen stroke, an illustration, grains, sand etc.

In my experience, it occurs quite often that libraries are unaware that they have books on geomancy.

David, I also included ones that used stars rather than dots. I was not trying to imply they were always dots. I was using dots/spots/stars, whatever you want to call them, in a generic sense. The important part is the number and arrangement (which is why I included a couple of charts to show their arrangements).

Also, the fact that I stated that they are used for the constellations does not exclude that they are used for other geomantic figures, as well... it just happens that constellations (and planets) were the subject of this thread).

Ok fair enough, but you are often yourself very straightforward in your text, that is why I was reaction and quoting the part where you wrote:

"In medieval geomantic illustrations, the constellations (and other celestial objects) are represented/symbolized with dots"

It has now been clarified that this should have read:  "...are sometimes represented..."

(15-12-2016, 04:52 PM)Davidsch Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Ok fair enough, but you are often yourself very straightforward in your text, that is why I was reaction and quoting the part where you wrote:

"In medieval geomantic illustrations, the constellations (and other celestial objects) are represented/symbolized with dots"

It has now been clarified that this should have read:  "...are sometimes represented..."

Somewhere in my files, I have an example where they are shown with tick marks (like straws). Unfortunately, I can't seem to find it (it will probably show up when I stop looking for it).

The "seven stars" motif apparently goes back to 1600 BC, at least:



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(17-12-2016, 11:30 AM)Sam G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The "seven stars" motif apparently goes back to 1600 BC, at least:



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Great image, Sam.