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		<title><![CDATA[The Voynich Ninja - Voynich Talk]]></title>
		<link>https://www.voynich.ninja/</link>
		<description><![CDATA[The Voynich Ninja - https://www.voynich.ninja]]></description>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2026 20:24:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<generator>MyBB</generator>
		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[Why would Ethel Voynich say the MS-408 was found in a Castle?]]></title>
			<link>https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5985.html</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2026 00:09:15 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=profile&uid=3884">MV_IO</a>]]></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5985.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[I purchased the book, "THE VOYNICH MANUSCRIPT"<br />
Edited by Raymond Clemens ~ With an Introduction by Deborah Harkness<br />
<br />
Dear Readers,<br />
<br />
I was wondering why would Ethel Voynich state in a letter from within the book that the MS-408 was found in a castle near Frascati?<br />
<br />
Wilfrid Voynich stated the MS-408 was found in a Castle in Southern Europe.  Other info locates it at "Villa Mondragone".  What were they hiding?  Or better yet why the mix up?<br />
<br />

<br />
<img src="https://www.voynich.ninja/images/attachtypes/image.png" title="JPG Image" border="0" alt=".jpg" />
&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href="attachment.php?aid=16926" target="_blank" title="">Castel Frascati.jpg</a> (Size: 1.91 MB / Downloads: 80)
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[I purchased the book, "THE VOYNICH MANUSCRIPT"<br />
Edited by Raymond Clemens ~ With an Introduction by Deborah Harkness<br />
<br />
Dear Readers,<br />
<br />
I was wondering why would Ethel Voynich state in a letter from within the book that the MS-408 was found in a castle near Frascati?<br />
<br />
Wilfrid Voynich stated the MS-408 was found in a Castle in Southern Europe.  Other info locates it at "Villa Mondragone".  What were they hiding?  Or better yet why the mix up?<br />
<br />

<br />
<img src="https://www.voynich.ninja/images/attachtypes/image.png" title="JPG Image" border="0" alt=".jpg" />
&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href="attachment.php?aid=16926" target="_blank" title="">Castel Frascati.jpg</a> (Size: 1.91 MB / Downloads: 80)
]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[AI Companies destroying rare books to train their AIs]]></title>
			<link>https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5980.html</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2026 20:17:40 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=profile&uid=82">Mark Knowles</a>]]></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5980.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[Let's just hope they leave some manuscripts for us.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[Let's just hope they leave some manuscripts for us.]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[How to create a pseudo language in 13 easy steps.]]></title>
			<link>https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5963.html</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2026 18:01:34 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=profile&uid=3074">Dunsel</a>]]></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5963.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[Step 1:  Grab 100 random words from Dickinson Latin Core Vocabulary.<br />
Step 2:  Split those words into phonetic prefix/midfix/suffix.  Only keep the prefix and suffix.<br />
Step 3:  Pick 20 random prefix and suffix from that normalized list.<br />
<br />
<table class="tborder tfixed clear" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="5"  style="border:0; radius:0;">
<tr class="trowaltern"><th class="thead" valign="middle" style="text-align:center; border-radius:0;"><strong>Prefix</strong></th><th class="thead" valign="middle" style="text-align:center; border-radius:0;"><strong>Suffix</strong></th></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">men</td><td valign="top">sa</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">mag</td><td valign="top">nus</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">gra</td><td valign="top">na</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">cor</td><td valign="top">cor</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">mi</td><td valign="top">ror</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">de</td><td valign="top">les</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">mons</td><td valign="top">do</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">mu</td><td valign="top">cem</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">mo</td><td valign="top">da</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">nar</td><td valign="top">mons</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">me</td><td valign="top">rus</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">gens</td><td valign="top">dus</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">ma</td><td valign="top">ro</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">bo</td><td valign="top">uam</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">ca</td><td valign="top">ue</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">a</td><td valign="top">a</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">e</td><td valign="top">e</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">i</td><td valign="top">i</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">o</td><td valign="top">o</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">u</td><td valign="top">u</td></tr>
</table>
<br />
Step 4:  Create a list of vowels, a,e,i,o,u,y then, create a substitution table by shifting them one to the right.<br />
Step 5:  Create a list of random consonants then, create a substitution table by shifting them one to the right.<br />
Step 6:  Substitute those shifted vowels and consonants into your prefix and suffix table.  Make sure to pick suffixes and prefixes that do not contain k, t, p or f.<br />
<br />
<table class="tborder tfixed clear" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="5"  style="border:0; radius:0;">
<tr class="trowaltern"><th class="thead" valign="middle" style="text-align:center; border-radius:0;"><strong>Shifted Prefix</strong></th><th class="thead" valign="middle" style="text-align:center; border-radius:0;"><strong>Shifted Suffix</strong></th></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">buq</td><td valign="top">go</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">boz</td><td valign="top">qag</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">zyo</td><td valign="top">qo</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">wiy</td><td valign="top">wiy</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">be</td><td valign="top">yiy</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">xu</td><td valign="top">dug</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">biqg</td><td valign="top">xi</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">ba</td><td valign="top">wub</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">bi</td><td valign="top">xo</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">qoy</td><td valign="top">biqg</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">bu</td><td valign="top">yag</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">zuqg</td><td valign="top">xag</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">bo</td><td valign="top">yi</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">ri</td><td valign="top">aob</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">wo</td><td valign="top">au</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">o</td><td valign="top">o</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">u</td><td valign="top">u</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">e</td><td valign="top">e</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">i</td><td valign="top">i</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">a</td><td valign="top">a</td></tr>
</table>
<br />
Step 7:  Combine your new prefixes and suffixes randomly in order to create words.  Note, you can stack up to 3 prefixes onto a suffix.<br />
Step 8:  Insert a k, t, p or f into the first letter position of the first word and randomly into other words.<br />
Step 9.  See what your first test output looks like.<br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: Courier New;" class="mycode_font">pbuqi aupa bkeo bowub i rii buua bazyoaob oiqo zyowogo uexag xu bozxag woixo babarixi woyiy ebue buqqag bia bkiwiy babiqg abiko baboyiy beyi zyodug ebawpiy eebaxo eobawub a uzyoyi ogo buxag buau ibozxag bozzyokego qoybee buuxi zyobebiqg woo bobouaob bau wokbuqbixo biqtag wkiyuwub yag rti zyobipqgqo xubodug zpyogo bebfebui.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: Courier New;" class="mycode_font">kbebawiyau ewiy bebopbiqg bubobozau wiy buzyoku buqyag bozyiy euyiy exki uwtiy bozwub bobiqg be ewfiy beyag wobawkub btaeyag zuqgtwou u exuxi abibuqxakg ebiqgyi a baaob buqoyxo rikxo zuqgewub zuqgqag xugo bozwtiy axag biupbozau zuqgwiyxi exuwiy ou riqoyku ie bayiy ebozriwiy bobaxo o zuqgyi rioi ebiqgu biqgogfo boxi biqgykag zyoea ribiqgxo.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: Courier New;" class="mycode_font">kbibiqgu bawub bteqo wofe bewoxag bexag etzyoxi ia wobiqg bozbpuqyag riyapg riexi bubewiy bozyi boukqag biwoyiy yiy zyowobexo bogfo abae bozbozau qoywub eqto aob bkozbuqxag zuqgwiy bizuqgoxi o ribuqtwiy bebeaob bozbabuxo riqo atu zyoau zuqgueyi xuau biupxo zyoo ubuqaxag buwowiy uribozwiy bobiqgu boubiqg xubozixag babeyiy qoybeeyiy buqxag biqgu zuqgeqfo eebuxi.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: Courier New;" class="mycode_font">fbiqoywub xuxuxi biqgqo bebuqbiqg wopxag riyiy zyoxi boadug wto baaotb ria iabiqg wity xfubaqo u xag babiqag uboxuqag baiau qoybiqg i bekbuqyi e biabiqg wiybozwoa baxi biqgabae ebiqgqag iboqo qoyieqag wiyxo biqgibue owobiqg buqbadug zyoeadug biawou bobawub riqoydug e xurixo bayi riwfoeyag zyoyi biaxi rizyoqag aobiqag zuqgbekyiy xudug riboaob boufxo.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">ICK! garbage.</span><br />
<br />
Step 10: Restrict word lengths to 10 chars with an attempt to average around length 6.<br />
Step 11: Create copy/mutate rules.  15% of words are created from the shifted prefix/suffix table or just the prefix or just the suffix. 30% are copies of words you've already put on the page.  50% are mutations of words by adding, deleting or swapping prefixes in words that have multiple prefixes. And the last 5% is just singletons.<br />
Step 12:  Check your new output.<br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: Courier New;" class="mycode_font">fbozqo beqo i bozqo i bozqpo beaob babozqo beqo beqo beqo oaob beaob xubozqo ibeqo beqo xubozqo beqo qoybeqo woaob obeqo babozqo zyowoaob beaofb rikbeqo wiyu zyowoaob woaob wiyykag buwiy qoybeqo oribeqo a beqo bubeqo bozqo qoywiyyag zuqggko bfeoaob buqwoaob bozyiy woaob bebeoaob bibuwiy wiyte bibuwiy bibeqto ribuwiy btabeqo wobeqo.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: Courier New;" class="mycode_font">twiydug zyowtoaob buwity beqo i beaob beaob btozqo aaob zyowoaob biqgaaob buqbofaob xuzyowoaob bebeqo zuqggo buqbiqkg bozwoaob e obeqo a ubeqo ebuwtiy wiyi bozbibeqo ebutwiy biqpgbeqo bawobeqo exfag uibeqo bkozqo wiyu beqo bepwiye ubikbeqo oaaob ufwiye woaob ufyiy abeaob woxo wiyyiy biqgqo aaaob bozwiydug ibeqo xuaaob buqbetaob bawifyyag biqgaaob zyowobkeqo.<br />
</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Courier New;" class="mycode_font">kzyowoaob ebeqo oabeaob beqo buwiy xkuxi ibeqo oubeqo rkibaqo bozqo awoaob aaob biqgbeqo u obeqo beqo buqwtoaob buqwiyfi bozqo riwiy bfoi i bozkxo bezyoe bozaob iaaob beqo bei bozbezyoe biqgbeqo buqwoaob rixuqko ariwiy bibeqo bfexag uiqo buwoaob bowiyu exuqo bowiy uriqo opbozqo bozwiyi wifyxi i oxki iebuwiy woaob ebeaob iebuwiy.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: Courier New;" class="mycode_font">twoaob qoyafob biqgwiy zyooubeqo bozbozxo wofaob oiebuwiy buquwiye bozqo bowiyu euibeqo woaob baobeqo riqpoybeqo exukqo buquwiye xuwkiyyag uqpag zyowoaob woyiy bobebeqpo bobuwiy ibowiyu buqwoaob bowiy boztaaob zuqggo iebuwiy xuaaob beqo iqoyaob qoykuriqo zyoyi iwiyu ibobau oribeqo woyag u btawobeqo zyou bkeaob boyag wiywiy bebei aobeqo qoybiqg biqgaaob zyoki bozpqo bozexuqo.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Much better!</span><br />
<br />
Step 13:  Substitute Latin characters for a cool looking alphabet you made up.<br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: Voynich;" class="mycode_font">fbozqo beqo i bozqo i bozqpo beaob babozqo beqo beqo beqo oaob beaob xubozqo ibeqo beqo xubozqo beqo qoybeqo woaob obeqo babozqo zyowoaob beaofb rikbeqo wiyu zyowoaob woaob wiyykag buwiy qoybeqo oribeqo a beqo bubeqo bozqo qoywiyyag zuqggko bfeoaob buqwoaob bozyiy woaob bebeoaob bibuwiy wiyte bibuwiy bibeqto ribuwiy btabeqo wobeqo.<br />
</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Voynich;" class="mycode_font">twiydug zyowtoaob buwity beqo i beaob beaob btozqo aaob zyowoaob biqgaaob buqbofaob xuzyowoaob bebeqo zuqggo buqbiqkg bozwoaob e obeqo a ubeqo ebuwtiy wiyi bozbibeqo ebutwiy biqpgbeqo bawobeqo exfag uibeqo bkozqo wiyu beqo bepwiye ubikbeqo oaaob ufwiye woaob ufyiy abeaob woxo wiyyiy biqgqo aaaob bozwiydug ibeqo xuaaob buqbetaob bawifyyag biqgaaob zyowobkeqo.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Voynich;" class="mycode_font"><br />
kzyowoaob ebeqo oabeaob beqo buwiy xkuxi ibeqo oubeqo rkibaqo bozqo awoaob aaob biqgbeqo u obeqo beqo buqwtoaob buqwiyfi bozqo riwiy bfoi i bozkxo bezyoe bozaob iaaob beqo bei bozbezyoe biqgbeqo buqwoaob rixuqko ariwiy bibeqo bfexag uiqo buwoaob bowiyu exuqo bowiy uriqo opbozqo bozwiyi wifyxi i oxki iebuwiy woaob ebeaob iebuwiy.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Voynich;" class="mycode_font"><br />
twoaob qoyafob biqgwiy zyooubeqo bozbozxo wofaob oiebuwiy buquwiye bozqo bowiyu euibeqo woaob baobeqo riqpoybeqo exukqo buquwiye xuwkiyyag uqpag zyowoaob woyiy bobebeqpo bobuwiy ibowiyu buqwoaob bowiy boztaaob zuqggo iebuwiy xuaaob beqo iqoyaob qoykuriqo zyoyi iwiyu ibobau oribeqo woyag u btawobeqo zyou bkeaob boyag wiywiy bebei aobeqo qoybiqg biqgaaob zyoki bozpqo bozexuqo.</span><br />
<br />
Extra credit:  Tweak the output as needed to make it look good and add some ambiguous illustrations.<br />
<br />
Now, before you say it:  <br />
<br />
Do I really think this is how the Voynich was created?  <br />
<br />
No.  Of course not.  <br />
<br />
BUT... I'm going to ask you to look over that output a bit closer.  You are going to see a lot of 'linguistic' traits and Voynich traits.  I know we're used to looking at Voynich and seeing it's patterns, but give it a shot.  <br />
<br />
Beqo.  It gets repeated.  Think daiin.<br />
<br />
And you get words like ibeqo and obeqo and oubeqo without even really trying.  Then woaob and beaob and bozaob and oaoab.  <br />
<br />
Think dain, ain, choldaiin, oldain.<br />
<br />
Just sharing something I'm working on as a theory.   I'm pretty well into it and as soon as I have something formalized I'll be sharing it as well.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[Step 1:  Grab 100 random words from Dickinson Latin Core Vocabulary.<br />
Step 2:  Split those words into phonetic prefix/midfix/suffix.  Only keep the prefix and suffix.<br />
Step 3:  Pick 20 random prefix and suffix from that normalized list.<br />
<br />
<table class="tborder tfixed clear" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="5"  style="border:0; radius:0;">
<tr class="trowaltern"><th class="thead" valign="middle" style="text-align:center; border-radius:0;"><strong>Prefix</strong></th><th class="thead" valign="middle" style="text-align:center; border-radius:0;"><strong>Suffix</strong></th></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">men</td><td valign="top">sa</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">mag</td><td valign="top">nus</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">gra</td><td valign="top">na</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">cor</td><td valign="top">cor</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">mi</td><td valign="top">ror</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">de</td><td valign="top">les</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">mons</td><td valign="top">do</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">mu</td><td valign="top">cem</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">mo</td><td valign="top">da</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">nar</td><td valign="top">mons</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">me</td><td valign="top">rus</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">gens</td><td valign="top">dus</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">ma</td><td valign="top">ro</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">bo</td><td valign="top">uam</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">ca</td><td valign="top">ue</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">a</td><td valign="top">a</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">e</td><td valign="top">e</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">i</td><td valign="top">i</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">o</td><td valign="top">o</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">u</td><td valign="top">u</td></tr>
</table>
<br />
Step 4:  Create a list of vowels, a,e,i,o,u,y then, create a substitution table by shifting them one to the right.<br />
Step 5:  Create a list of random consonants then, create a substitution table by shifting them one to the right.<br />
Step 6:  Substitute those shifted vowels and consonants into your prefix and suffix table.  Make sure to pick suffixes and prefixes that do not contain k, t, p or f.<br />
<br />
<table class="tborder tfixed clear" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="5"  style="border:0; radius:0;">
<tr class="trowaltern"><th class="thead" valign="middle" style="text-align:center; border-radius:0;"><strong>Shifted Prefix</strong></th><th class="thead" valign="middle" style="text-align:center; border-radius:0;"><strong>Shifted Suffix</strong></th></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">buq</td><td valign="top">go</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">boz</td><td valign="top">qag</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">zyo</td><td valign="top">qo</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">wiy</td><td valign="top">wiy</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">be</td><td valign="top">yiy</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">xu</td><td valign="top">dug</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">biqg</td><td valign="top">xi</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">ba</td><td valign="top">wub</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">bi</td><td valign="top">xo</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">qoy</td><td valign="top">biqg</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">bu</td><td valign="top">yag</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">zuqg</td><td valign="top">xag</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">bo</td><td valign="top">yi</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">ri</td><td valign="top">aob</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">wo</td><td valign="top">au</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">o</td><td valign="top">o</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">u</td><td valign="top">u</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">e</td><td valign="top">e</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">i</td><td valign="top">i</td></tr>
<tr class="trowaltern"><td valign="top">a</td><td valign="top">a</td></tr>
</table>
<br />
Step 7:  Combine your new prefixes and suffixes randomly in order to create words.  Note, you can stack up to 3 prefixes onto a suffix.<br />
Step 8:  Insert a k, t, p or f into the first letter position of the first word and randomly into other words.<br />
Step 9.  See what your first test output looks like.<br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: Courier New;" class="mycode_font">pbuqi aupa bkeo bowub i rii buua bazyoaob oiqo zyowogo uexag xu bozxag woixo babarixi woyiy ebue buqqag bia bkiwiy babiqg abiko baboyiy beyi zyodug ebawpiy eebaxo eobawub a uzyoyi ogo buxag buau ibozxag bozzyokego qoybee buuxi zyobebiqg woo bobouaob bau wokbuqbixo biqtag wkiyuwub yag rti zyobipqgqo xubodug zpyogo bebfebui.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: Courier New;" class="mycode_font">kbebawiyau ewiy bebopbiqg bubobozau wiy buzyoku buqyag bozyiy euyiy exki uwtiy bozwub bobiqg be ewfiy beyag wobawkub btaeyag zuqgtwou u exuxi abibuqxakg ebiqgyi a baaob buqoyxo rikxo zuqgewub zuqgqag xugo bozwtiy axag biupbozau zuqgwiyxi exuwiy ou riqoyku ie bayiy ebozriwiy bobaxo o zuqgyi rioi ebiqgu biqgogfo boxi biqgykag zyoea ribiqgxo.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: Courier New;" class="mycode_font">kbibiqgu bawub bteqo wofe bewoxag bexag etzyoxi ia wobiqg bozbpuqyag riyapg riexi bubewiy bozyi boukqag biwoyiy yiy zyowobexo bogfo abae bozbozau qoywub eqto aob bkozbuqxag zuqgwiy bizuqgoxi o ribuqtwiy bebeaob bozbabuxo riqo atu zyoau zuqgueyi xuau biupxo zyoo ubuqaxag buwowiy uribozwiy bobiqgu boubiqg xubozixag babeyiy qoybeeyiy buqxag biqgu zuqgeqfo eebuxi.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: Courier New;" class="mycode_font">fbiqoywub xuxuxi biqgqo bebuqbiqg wopxag riyiy zyoxi boadug wto baaotb ria iabiqg wity xfubaqo u xag babiqag uboxuqag baiau qoybiqg i bekbuqyi e biabiqg wiybozwoa baxi biqgabae ebiqgqag iboqo qoyieqag wiyxo biqgibue owobiqg buqbadug zyoeadug biawou bobawub riqoydug e xurixo bayi riwfoeyag zyoyi biaxi rizyoqag aobiqag zuqgbekyiy xudug riboaob boufxo.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">ICK! garbage.</span><br />
<br />
Step 10: Restrict word lengths to 10 chars with an attempt to average around length 6.<br />
Step 11: Create copy/mutate rules.  15% of words are created from the shifted prefix/suffix table or just the prefix or just the suffix. 30% are copies of words you've already put on the page.  50% are mutations of words by adding, deleting or swapping prefixes in words that have multiple prefixes. And the last 5% is just singletons.<br />
Step 12:  Check your new output.<br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: Courier New;" class="mycode_font">fbozqo beqo i bozqo i bozqpo beaob babozqo beqo beqo beqo oaob beaob xubozqo ibeqo beqo xubozqo beqo qoybeqo woaob obeqo babozqo zyowoaob beaofb rikbeqo wiyu zyowoaob woaob wiyykag buwiy qoybeqo oribeqo a beqo bubeqo bozqo qoywiyyag zuqggko bfeoaob buqwoaob bozyiy woaob bebeoaob bibuwiy wiyte bibuwiy bibeqto ribuwiy btabeqo wobeqo.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: Courier New;" class="mycode_font">twiydug zyowtoaob buwity beqo i beaob beaob btozqo aaob zyowoaob biqgaaob buqbofaob xuzyowoaob bebeqo zuqggo buqbiqkg bozwoaob e obeqo a ubeqo ebuwtiy wiyi bozbibeqo ebutwiy biqpgbeqo bawobeqo exfag uibeqo bkozqo wiyu beqo bepwiye ubikbeqo oaaob ufwiye woaob ufyiy abeaob woxo wiyyiy biqgqo aaaob bozwiydug ibeqo xuaaob buqbetaob bawifyyag biqgaaob zyowobkeqo.<br />
</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Courier New;" class="mycode_font">kzyowoaob ebeqo oabeaob beqo buwiy xkuxi ibeqo oubeqo rkibaqo bozqo awoaob aaob biqgbeqo u obeqo beqo buqwtoaob buqwiyfi bozqo riwiy bfoi i bozkxo bezyoe bozaob iaaob beqo bei bozbezyoe biqgbeqo buqwoaob rixuqko ariwiy bibeqo bfexag uiqo buwoaob bowiyu exuqo bowiy uriqo opbozqo bozwiyi wifyxi i oxki iebuwiy woaob ebeaob iebuwiy.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: Courier New;" class="mycode_font">twoaob qoyafob biqgwiy zyooubeqo bozbozxo wofaob oiebuwiy buquwiye bozqo bowiyu euibeqo woaob baobeqo riqpoybeqo exukqo buquwiye xuwkiyyag uqpag zyowoaob woyiy bobebeqpo bobuwiy ibowiyu buqwoaob bowiy boztaaob zuqggo iebuwiy xuaaob beqo iqoyaob qoykuriqo zyoyi iwiyu ibobau oribeqo woyag u btawobeqo zyou bkeaob boyag wiywiy bebei aobeqo qoybiqg biqgaaob zyoki bozpqo bozexuqo.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Much better!</span><br />
<br />
Step 13:  Substitute Latin characters for a cool looking alphabet you made up.<br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: Voynich;" class="mycode_font">fbozqo beqo i bozqo i bozqpo beaob babozqo beqo beqo beqo oaob beaob xubozqo ibeqo beqo xubozqo beqo qoybeqo woaob obeqo babozqo zyowoaob beaofb rikbeqo wiyu zyowoaob woaob wiyykag buwiy qoybeqo oribeqo a beqo bubeqo bozqo qoywiyyag zuqggko bfeoaob buqwoaob bozyiy woaob bebeoaob bibuwiy wiyte bibuwiy bibeqto ribuwiy btabeqo wobeqo.<br />
</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Voynich;" class="mycode_font">twiydug zyowtoaob buwity beqo i beaob beaob btozqo aaob zyowoaob biqgaaob buqbofaob xuzyowoaob bebeqo zuqggo buqbiqkg bozwoaob e obeqo a ubeqo ebuwtiy wiyi bozbibeqo ebutwiy biqpgbeqo bawobeqo exfag uibeqo bkozqo wiyu beqo bepwiye ubikbeqo oaaob ufwiye woaob ufyiy abeaob woxo wiyyiy biqgqo aaaob bozwiydug ibeqo xuaaob buqbetaob bawifyyag biqgaaob zyowobkeqo.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Voynich;" class="mycode_font"><br />
kzyowoaob ebeqo oabeaob beqo buwiy xkuxi ibeqo oubeqo rkibaqo bozqo awoaob aaob biqgbeqo u obeqo beqo buqwtoaob buqwiyfi bozqo riwiy bfoi i bozkxo bezyoe bozaob iaaob beqo bei bozbezyoe biqgbeqo buqwoaob rixuqko ariwiy bibeqo bfexag uiqo buwoaob bowiyu exuqo bowiy uriqo opbozqo bozwiyi wifyxi i oxki iebuwiy woaob ebeaob iebuwiy.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Voynich;" class="mycode_font"><br />
twoaob qoyafob biqgwiy zyooubeqo bozbozxo wofaob oiebuwiy buquwiye bozqo bowiyu euibeqo woaob baobeqo riqpoybeqo exukqo buquwiye xuwkiyyag uqpag zyowoaob woyiy bobebeqpo bobuwiy ibowiyu buqwoaob bowiy boztaaob zuqggo iebuwiy xuaaob beqo iqoyaob qoykuriqo zyoyi iwiyu ibobau oribeqo woyag u btawobeqo zyou bkeaob boyag wiywiy bebei aobeqo qoybiqg biqgaaob zyoki bozpqo bozexuqo.</span><br />
<br />
Extra credit:  Tweak the output as needed to make it look good and add some ambiguous illustrations.<br />
<br />
Now, before you say it:  <br />
<br />
Do I really think this is how the Voynich was created?  <br />
<br />
No.  Of course not.  <br />
<br />
BUT... I'm going to ask you to look over that output a bit closer.  You are going to see a lot of 'linguistic' traits and Voynich traits.  I know we're used to looking at Voynich and seeing it's patterns, but give it a shot.  <br />
<br />
Beqo.  It gets repeated.  Think daiin.<br />
<br />
And you get words like ibeqo and obeqo and oubeqo without even really trying.  Then woaob and beaob and bozaob and oaoab.  <br />
<br />
Think dain, ain, choldaiin, oldain.<br />
<br />
Just sharing something I'm working on as a theory.   I'm pretty well into it and as soon as I have something formalized I'll be sharing it as well.]]></content:encoded>
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			<title><![CDATA[Are there any VMS-type hoaxes?]]></title>
			<link>https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5951.html</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2026 21:36:52 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=profile&uid=3690">ololololo</a>]]></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5951.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[The weakness of the hoax theory is that its proponents rarely provide examples of such "fake books". <br />
It's worth wondering if there's any hoax "VMS spirit" at all. For example, it could be written in a made-up, nonsensical language, or filled with nonsensical illustrations, or misleading, etc.<br />
<br />
The only person who comes to mind is Samuel Literati Nemesh, and no one else...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[The weakness of the hoax theory is that its proponents rarely provide examples of such "fake books". <br />
It's worth wondering if there's any hoax "VMS spirit" at all. For example, it could be written in a made-up, nonsensical language, or filled with nonsensical illustrations, or misleading, etc.<br />
<br />
The only person who comes to mind is Samuel Literati Nemesh, and no one else...]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[Research that needs to be done / research ideas.]]></title>
			<link>https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5945.html</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2026 13:13:52 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=profile&uid=68">Koen G</a>]]></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5945.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[I received an email from someone asking how they could contribute to Voynich research. I thought for a bit, but didn't find it easy to come up with an answer. Sure, I'd like someone to find better matches for the month names handwriting, but that's an extremely specialized and tricky task that we kind of crashed on ourselves. In other words, whenever I think "someone should do this", it's because the research requires expertise that I don't have.<br />
<br />
But maybe some of you guys have more inspiration? If someone wants to contribute to the research, what are things they can do? More generally, what are research topics that you can think of that you'd like to see anyone explore? <br />
<br />
(Disclaimer: all suggestions made in this thread should be "up for grabs", so don't share research ideas that you want to keep for yourself).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[I received an email from someone asking how they could contribute to Voynich research. I thought for a bit, but didn't find it easy to come up with an answer. Sure, I'd like someone to find better matches for the month names handwriting, but that's an extremely specialized and tricky task that we kind of crashed on ourselves. In other words, whenever I think "someone should do this", it's because the research requires expertise that I don't have.<br />
<br />
But maybe some of you guys have more inspiration? If someone wants to contribute to the research, what are things they can do? More generally, what are research topics that you can think of that you'd like to see anyone explore? <br />
<br />
(Disclaimer: all suggestions made in this thread should be "up for grabs", so don't share research ideas that you want to keep for yourself).]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[Singulion reorder based on Davis and Layfield article]]></title>
			<link>https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5940.html</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2026 16:16:37 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=profile&uid=3802">mgvtheus</a>]]></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5940.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[Hello everyone<br />
<br />
Based on Davis and Layfield recent article about the order of the quires and pages, I tried to "reorder" the entire MS using their method, but using the ZL3b transliteration.<br />
<br />
The results were:<br />
<br />

<br />
<img src="https://www.voynich.ninja/images/attachtypes/image.png" title="PNG Image" border="0" alt=".png" />
&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href="attachment.php?aid=16658" target="_blank" title="">Captura de tela 2026-07-18 130748.png</a> (Size: 14.88 KB / Downloads: 108)
<br />
<br />
This was done using an Held-Karp algorithm. Now, this is only an hypothesis, and something I noticed is that: Q20 matches the research, but the "edges" of Q13 change (Davis/Layfield propose 77|82, 78|81, 75|84, 76|83, 79|80, my algorithm proposes 79|80, 78|81, 75|84, 76|83, 77|82). This could be due to transliteration differences, or maybe the algorithm used (Held-Karp), but it's something pretty interesting.<br />
<br />
By the way, the results that have a 0% improvement (Q15 included) may not be anyway useful, since there is no verified improvement in the reordering.<br />
<br />
I ask you to consider the hypothesis and make your own assertions about it. I'm not an expert on the field, so your thoughts are really important.  <img src="https://www.voynich.ninja/images/smilies/smile.png" alt="Smile" title="Smile" class="smilie smilie_1" /><br />
<br />
Thank you.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[Hello everyone<br />
<br />
Based on Davis and Layfield recent article about the order of the quires and pages, I tried to "reorder" the entire MS using their method, but using the ZL3b transliteration.<br />
<br />
The results were:<br />
<br />

<br />
<img src="https://www.voynich.ninja/images/attachtypes/image.png" title="PNG Image" border="0" alt=".png" />
&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href="attachment.php?aid=16658" target="_blank" title="">Captura de tela 2026-07-18 130748.png</a> (Size: 14.88 KB / Downloads: 108)
<br />
<br />
This was done using an Held-Karp algorithm. Now, this is only an hypothesis, and something I noticed is that: Q20 matches the research, but the "edges" of Q13 change (Davis/Layfield propose 77|82, 78|81, 75|84, 76|83, 79|80, my algorithm proposes 79|80, 78|81, 75|84, 76|83, 77|82). This could be due to transliteration differences, or maybe the algorithm used (Held-Karp), but it's something pretty interesting.<br />
<br />
By the way, the results that have a 0% improvement (Q15 included) may not be anyway useful, since there is no verified improvement in the reordering.<br />
<br />
I ask you to consider the hypothesis and make your own assertions about it. I'm not an expert on the field, so your thoughts are really important.  <img src="https://www.voynich.ninja/images/smilies/smile.png" alt="Smile" title="Smile" class="smilie smilie_1" /><br />
<br />
Thank you.]]></content:encoded>
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			<title><![CDATA[Voynich statistical data]]></title>
			<link>https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5938.html</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2026 16:29:06 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=profile&uid=3830">stato</a>]]></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5938.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[Hello,<br />
<br />
New user (sorry if I am not posting in the correct place) here.<br />
Is there a collection anywhere of statistical data about the voynich? I am imagining CSVs of bigram frequencies etc. I want to make some original graphics to illustrate what we know about the text.<br />
 <br />
I tried to use the search bar and just browse around but couldn't find what I was looking for.<br />
<br />
Thank you!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[Hello,<br />
<br />
New user (sorry if I am not posting in the correct place) here.<br />
Is there a collection anywhere of statistical data about the voynich? I am imagining CSVs of bigram frequencies etc. I want to make some original graphics to illustrate what we know about the text.<br />
 <br />
I tried to use the search bar and just browse around but couldn't find what I was looking for.<br />
<br />
Thank you!]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[My "Attempt" to Solve the Manuscript.]]></title>
			<link>https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5932.html</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2026 08:49:34 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=profile&uid=3826">J_Voy</a>]]></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5932.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[Now, I've been interested in the Voynich Manuscript for quite some time now, and for that time I knew that this site was the go-to place for Voynich research. I've also taken note of some various Voynich Solutions, especially those using Simple Substitution to crack the Manuscript, and i have had confirmation bias in my head for a long time, basically, my theory was that no matter what, if you manipulate the manuscript enough, you will find what you are looking for, to test my theory, I "solved" the manuscript in a single afternoon.<br />
<br />
This solution is NOT meant to be taken seriously, and is meant to:<br />
1. Test the confirmation bias hypothesis.<br />
2. Parody other Voynich solutions.<br />
<br />
I know that simple substitution is not the right answer, but I tried anyway! Wish you all the best.<br />
<br />

<br />
<img src="https://www.voynich.ninja/images/attachtypes/pdf.png" title="Adobe Acrobat PDF" border="0" alt=".pdf" />
&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href="attachment.php?aid=16644" target="_blank" title="">My Voynich Solution.pdf</a> (Size: 545.85 KB / Downloads: 35)
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[Now, I've been interested in the Voynich Manuscript for quite some time now, and for that time I knew that this site was the go-to place for Voynich research. I've also taken note of some various Voynich Solutions, especially those using Simple Substitution to crack the Manuscript, and i have had confirmation bias in my head for a long time, basically, my theory was that no matter what, if you manipulate the manuscript enough, you will find what you are looking for, to test my theory, I "solved" the manuscript in a single afternoon.<br />
<br />
This solution is NOT meant to be taken seriously, and is meant to:<br />
1. Test the confirmation bias hypothesis.<br />
2. Parody other Voynich solutions.<br />
<br />
I know that simple substitution is not the right answer, but I tried anyway! Wish you all the best.<br />
<br />

<br />
<img src="https://www.voynich.ninja/images/attachtypes/pdf.png" title="Adobe Acrobat PDF" border="0" alt=".pdf" />
&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href="attachment.php?aid=16644" target="_blank" title="">My Voynich Solution.pdf</a> (Size: 545.85 KB / Downloads: 35)
]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[Hand Copying the Entire Manuscript]]></title>
			<link>https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5890.html</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2026 21:49:07 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=profile&uid=2419">seridane</a>]]></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5890.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[Hello all,<br />
Almost a year and a half ago I registered on this site for the first time and made a hello post where I said I was going to make a copy of the entire manuscript by hand. Never posted or commented since, though I've done a lot more lurking and reading.<br />
And I've done it! <br />
Almost. <br />
I have about 2 pages left to ink, and 20 pages plus the Rosette fold out to paint. And of course I have to bind the entire thing. I'm hoping I'll be completely done in two or three weeks.<br />
I'm in the process of scanning and formatting the pages I've completed while I finish the last physical pages, and I think at least one person was interested in seeing it? Here's a link to a goole drive folder with a sampling of completed pages if that's you: You are not allowed to view links. <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=login">Login</a> to view.<br />
<br />
Let me know if there are any particular pages anyone is interested in and I'll add them.<br />
Thanks for looking!<br />
-michelle]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[Hello all,<br />
Almost a year and a half ago I registered on this site for the first time and made a hello post where I said I was going to make a copy of the entire manuscript by hand. Never posted or commented since, though I've done a lot more lurking and reading.<br />
And I've done it! <br />
Almost. <br />
I have about 2 pages left to ink, and 20 pages plus the Rosette fold out to paint. And of course I have to bind the entire thing. I'm hoping I'll be completely done in two or three weeks.<br />
I'm in the process of scanning and formatting the pages I've completed while I finish the last physical pages, and I think at least one person was interested in seeing it? Here's a link to a goole drive folder with a sampling of completed pages if that's you: You are not allowed to view links. <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=login">Login</a> to view.<br />
<br />
Let me know if there are any particular pages anyone is interested in and I'll add them.<br />
Thanks for looking!<br />
-michelle]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[[split] Voynich 2026 Conference QUESTIONS/COMMENTS]]></title>
			<link>https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5871.html</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2026 03:16:35 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=profile&uid=2182">BessAgritianin</a>]]></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5871.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA["<span style="color: #666666;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Lato, sans-serif;" class="mycode_font">Note:  Proposed "solutions" will not be accepted."</span></span></span><br />
<span style="color: #666666;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Lato, sans-serif;" class="mycode_font"> If the proposed solutions are not accepted, then what is the purpose of the conference?</span></span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="color: #666666;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Lato, sans-serif;" class="mycode_font">This policy actually says :"We want to study the Voynich Manuscript, but we do not actually want anyone to solve it."</span></span></span><br />
<span style="color: #666666;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Lato, sans-serif;" class="mycode_font">It protects <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">the status quo</span> and ensures that the mystery will continue indefinitely.</span></span></span><br />
<span style="color: #666666;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Lato, sans-serif;" class="mycode_font"> Refer my thread:  You are not allowed to view links. <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=login">Login</a> to view.</span></span></span><br />
<span style="color: #666666;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Lato, sans-serif;" class="mycode_font">  Isn't it time on testing evidence, not just maintaining the mystery?</span></span></span>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA["<span style="color: #666666;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Lato, sans-serif;" class="mycode_font">Note:  Proposed "solutions" will not be accepted."</span></span></span><br />
<span style="color: #666666;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Lato, sans-serif;" class="mycode_font"> If the proposed solutions are not accepted, then what is the purpose of the conference?</span></span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="color: #666666;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Lato, sans-serif;" class="mycode_font">This policy actually says :"We want to study the Voynich Manuscript, but we do not actually want anyone to solve it."</span></span></span><br />
<span style="color: #666666;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Lato, sans-serif;" class="mycode_font">It protects <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">the status quo</span> and ensures that the mystery will continue indefinitely.</span></span></span><br />
<span style="color: #666666;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Lato, sans-serif;" class="mycode_font"> Refer my thread:  You are not allowed to view links. <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=login">Login</a> to view.</span></span></span><br />
<span style="color: #666666;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Lato, sans-serif;" class="mycode_font">  Isn't it time on testing evidence, not just maintaining the mystery?</span></span></span>]]></content:encoded>
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			<title><![CDATA[Barbavara Ciphers]]></title>
			<link>https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5828.html</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2026 12:50:07 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=profile&uid=82">Mark Knowles</a>]]></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5828.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[Francesco I Barbavara's cipher key in the Archivio di Stato di Mantova<br />
<br />
His 6 nephews, the brothers-&gt;<br />
<br />
Marcolino Barbavara's enciphered letters in the Bibliothèque Nationale de France in the Library of Paris<br />
<br />
Francesco II Barbavara intercepted letter referring to ciphers that he sent in the Archivio di Stato di Firenze<br />
<br />
Bishop Giovanni Barbavara's cipher key in the Archivio Diocesano di Tortona<br />
<br />
Abbot Antonio Barbavara who I associated with the authorship of the Voynich manuscript on the basis of a cartographic theory long before I knew of any connection of his family to cryptography<br />
<br />
Nicolino Barbavara, Mayor of Vercelli(No known surviving ciphers)<br />
<br />
Pietro Barbavara, Apostolic Protonotary(No known surviving ciphers)<br />
<br />
Son of Marcolino-&gt;<br />
<br />
Scipione Barbavara's cipher key in the Tranchedino Cipher Ledger in the Austrian Library in Vienna<br />
<br />
---<br />
<br />
I am most focused now in locating ciphers written by Francesco II Barbavara.<br />
<br />
Unfortunately, I haven't yet seen any surviving document in cipher or not in cipher written by Abbot Antonio. Although, I know a certain amount about him from various sources including his great interest in and collection of varieties of plants as the plaque in the Abbey where he was Abbot states.<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
Surviving evidence shows that the chancellery of Milan was responsible for producing the most advanced and innovative ciphers in the world at the time from which the Voynich manuscript was dated. See, in particular, the 1424 intercepted Milanese enciphered letters in the Archivio di Stato di Firenze.<br />
<br />
And the Barbavara family were at the centre of Milanese cryptography. Francesco I Barbavara is credited with having created the first modern foreign office under Duke of Milan, Gian Galeazzo Visconti. Francesco II Barbavara was Ducal Secretary and Head of the chancellery of Duke of Milan, Filippo Maria Visconti. Marcolino Barbavara was a prominent diplomat in the government of Filippo Maria Visconti.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[Francesco I Barbavara's cipher key in the Archivio di Stato di Mantova<br />
<br />
His 6 nephews, the brothers-&gt;<br />
<br />
Marcolino Barbavara's enciphered letters in the Bibliothèque Nationale de France in the Library of Paris<br />
<br />
Francesco II Barbavara intercepted letter referring to ciphers that he sent in the Archivio di Stato di Firenze<br />
<br />
Bishop Giovanni Barbavara's cipher key in the Archivio Diocesano di Tortona<br />
<br />
Abbot Antonio Barbavara who I associated with the authorship of the Voynich manuscript on the basis of a cartographic theory long before I knew of any connection of his family to cryptography<br />
<br />
Nicolino Barbavara, Mayor of Vercelli(No known surviving ciphers)<br />
<br />
Pietro Barbavara, Apostolic Protonotary(No known surviving ciphers)<br />
<br />
Son of Marcolino-&gt;<br />
<br />
Scipione Barbavara's cipher key in the Tranchedino Cipher Ledger in the Austrian Library in Vienna<br />
<br />
---<br />
<br />
I am most focused now in locating ciphers written by Francesco II Barbavara.<br />
<br />
Unfortunately, I haven't yet seen any surviving document in cipher or not in cipher written by Abbot Antonio. Although, I know a certain amount about him from various sources including his great interest in and collection of varieties of plants as the plaque in the Abbey where he was Abbot states.<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
Surviving evidence shows that the chancellery of Milan was responsible for producing the most advanced and innovative ciphers in the world at the time from which the Voynich manuscript was dated. See, in particular, the 1424 intercepted Milanese enciphered letters in the Archivio di Stato di Firenze.<br />
<br />
And the Barbavara family were at the centre of Milanese cryptography. Francesco I Barbavara is credited with having created the first modern foreign office under Duke of Milan, Gian Galeazzo Visconti. Francesco II Barbavara was Ducal Secretary and Head of the chancellery of Duke of Milan, Filippo Maria Visconti. Marcolino Barbavara was a prominent diplomat in the government of Filippo Maria Visconti.]]></content:encoded>
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			<title><![CDATA[How much time and effort may have been put in?]]></title>
			<link>https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5799.html</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2026 14:57:39 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=profile&uid=2381">eggyk</a>]]></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5799.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[Quite often, I see opinions here discussing various theories and judging them based on the amount of effort that would have been required from the VMS author for them to be true. I want to discuss that, even though it's almost definitely been discussed before. <br />
<br />
How much effort do you think could have been put into the VMS text, illustrations and/or ciphers? <br />
How much effort <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">from the author</span> does a theory require before you dismiss it as unlikely, and why? <br />
How much effort would a <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">potential decoding</span> require before you dismiss the cipher as unlikely, and why?<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I'll start: I think that any amount of effort/monotony, up to the scale of decades of work, sits within what's possible. There are countless examples of people doing extensive monotonous work for no specific reason beyond "why not?". Some people simply want to do something and do it, regardless of utility. <br />
<br />
You have communities and individuals everywhere that do things on this scale. Some people go out and collect rocks from different places, some people spend years organising and digitising manuscripts knowing that almost noone will ever look, others build an extensive library of all of the worlds road bollards, electrical posts, and plant species for no reason other than knowing where they are on geoguessr. A group of players in minecraft are attempting to build the entire earth at a 1:1 scale! <br />
<br />
Perhaps the most relevant example is the Voynich community itself. Many people set out to research and solve this manuscript, spending hours, days, weeks, months, sometimes years, and sometimes decades putting in 1000s of hours of effort in. Is it so unbelievable that someone may spend an entire year's worth of their free time writing a book meant to be unreadable, just for the sake of it? We tend to assume that if there is meaning in the text then there must have been a use case, but what if the author simply enjoyed writing weird/fancy books?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[Quite often, I see opinions here discussing various theories and judging them based on the amount of effort that would have been required from the VMS author for them to be true. I want to discuss that, even though it's almost definitely been discussed before. <br />
<br />
How much effort do you think could have been put into the VMS text, illustrations and/or ciphers? <br />
How much effort <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">from the author</span> does a theory require before you dismiss it as unlikely, and why? <br />
How much effort would a <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">potential decoding</span> require before you dismiss the cipher as unlikely, and why?<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I'll start: I think that any amount of effort/monotony, up to the scale of decades of work, sits within what's possible. There are countless examples of people doing extensive monotonous work for no specific reason beyond "why not?". Some people simply want to do something and do it, regardless of utility. <br />
<br />
You have communities and individuals everywhere that do things on this scale. Some people go out and collect rocks from different places, some people spend years organising and digitising manuscripts knowing that almost noone will ever look, others build an extensive library of all of the worlds road bollards, electrical posts, and plant species for no reason other than knowing where they are on geoguessr. A group of players in minecraft are attempting to build the entire earth at a 1:1 scale! <br />
<br />
Perhaps the most relevant example is the Voynich community itself. Many people set out to research and solve this manuscript, spending hours, days, weeks, months, sometimes years, and sometimes decades putting in 1000s of hours of effort in. Is it so unbelievable that someone may spend an entire year's worth of their free time writing a book meant to be unreadable, just for the sake of it? We tend to assume that if there is meaning in the text then there must have been a use case, but what if the author simply enjoyed writing weird/fancy books?]]></content:encoded>
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		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[The Unsolved Mystery of Lorem Ipsum]]></title>
			<link>https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5796.html</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2026 15:24:01 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=profile&uid=24">Torsten</a>]]></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5796.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[I came across this youtube video about the history of the Lorem ipsum text — the world's famous placeholder text. Maybe others find this video also interesting.<br />
<br />
You are not allowed to view links. <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=login">Login</a> to view.<br />
<br />
A few points that I think could be of interest:<br />
<br />
Lorem ipsum has been used as placeholder text since 1966. For decades nobody knew what it was or where it came from.<br />
<br />
"Lorem ipsum" was created by taking real Latin text from Cicero and modifying it — removing key words that carried meaning, adding non-Latin letters, garbling phrases. The modifications were small and selective. The result looks like Latin but is unreadable. It fooled everyone for decades until one scholar noticed a rare word and traced it back to its source.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[I came across this youtube video about the history of the Lorem ipsum text — the world's famous placeholder text. Maybe others find this video also interesting.<br />
<br />
You are not allowed to view links. <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=login">Login</a> to view.<br />
<br />
A few points that I think could be of interest:<br />
<br />
Lorem ipsum has been used as placeholder text since 1966. For decades nobody knew what it was or where it came from.<br />
<br />
"Lorem ipsum" was created by taking real Latin text from Cicero and modifying it — removing key words that carried meaning, adding non-Latin letters, garbling phrases. The modifications were small and selective. The result looks like Latin but is unreadable. It fooled everyone for decades until one scholar noticed a rare word and traced it back to its source.]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[Vegetius De re militari - the origin and purpose of military literature]]></title>
			<link>https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5750.html</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2026 11:36:01 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=profile&uid=1804">Bernd</a>]]></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5750.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[We have looked at Kyeser, Taccola, and other late medieval engineers as an inspiration for the VM, noticing they all contain highly similar illustrations. I would like to find the source for these illustrations. But while Kyeser as a person clearly pre-dates Taccola, this is hampered by the fact that manuscripts of those authors were copied over a considerable time-frame, likely copying from each other.<br />
<br />
The main source of medieval siege and military literature was You are not allowed to view links. <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=login">Login</a> to view., a Late Roman writer from the 4th century. His work <span style="font-style: italic;" class="mycode_i">De re militari</span>, or <span style="font-style: italic;" class="mycode_i">Epitoma rei militaris</span> remained a popular military literature until the 19th century. However, for different reasons that one might think. Jorge asked why many illustrations in the works of all authors who copied him make no sense and look like the artist had no idea about the machine depicted. The reason is the same as for fantastic and widely inaccurate plants in herbals. Vegetius himself was, as far as we know, nether a historian, soldier nor an engineer - but an aristocrat. Modern scholars are critical of his descriptions of the Roman army and note that he carelessly compiled material from different sources and time periods and is full of inconsistencies and obvious mistakes. Vegetius lived at a time of decline of the Roman Empire and reminisced a better (and obviously fictious) 'Golden Age', much like Plato's description of Sparta as an ideal state. In other words, even the original work was - basically a fake.<br />
<br />
<blockquote class="mycode_quote"><cite>Quote:</cite>Although the text was historically taken at face value during the Middle Ages and Renaissance, as an accurate contemporary work on the Roman army and as a valuable military manual, modern historians have questioned the accuracy of the claims that Vegetius made about the state of the Roman army in his time. According to Michael B. Charles "many details that he provides about the [Roman] military are simply wrong", and said that it was "doubtful" that he had any military experience, arguing that the work was "not meant to be an accurate exposition of Roman military history, or indeed [then] present-day military activities", and that only "small but nonetheless valuable nuggets" of information in the text are actually valuable for understanding the Late Roman Army. The work has also been criticised on stylistic grounds. Sydney Anglo stated that the work was "mediocre" and that "its coverage of Roman military institutions is derivative, patchy, inconsistent and repetitious", and that Vegetius blended information from vastly different time periods in an unclear and confused way, with Anglo stating that "Vegetius's account of Roman military usage was not so much anachronistic as extra-chronistic. It was outside any specific time."</blockquote>
<br />
Now why would such a faux military guide be popular for 1500 years? First, it did contain some valid organizational and strategical advice, second, it was not intended to be used by military officers. Vegetius was an aristocrat, and his audience was nobility. We must see such works in a more abstract way. The historian Werner Leng wrote about the reception of Vegetius works from the middle ages to modernity that Vegetius was rarely seen as a military field guide for officers, but more of a cultural and aesthetic guide for nobility who sought to present themselves as the successors of the Roman Empire. Also as a political and moralistic guide on leadership and organization in line with the teachings of Aristoteles or Plato.<br />
<br />
This is something we often tend to forget when we look at medieval manuscripts from a modern perspective. A herbal like Dioscorides was not created to be used by a physician to treat patients. A manuscript on warfare and engineering like Kyeser was not created to be used by a military officer or engineer. They were conversation pieces and collectibles for nobility that were meant to show the owner was familiar with the teachings of the re-discovered authorities of antiquity. Even the obviously practical notebooks of engineers like Taccola and Ghiberti were also representational. The machines are mostly useless. They are fantastic ideas, like one would draw a martian colony nowadays. Inspirational, aesthetic, fashionable. This is why we have all those copies of impossible machines. They were fancy. The question is who came up with the illustrations first? Like Dioscorides, the oldest copies of Vegetius appear to have been un-illustrated. At some point, an artist tried to create more-or less accurate illustrations of war and siege machines from the text, which were then copied further. But these were never technical drawings in a modern sense. Ideas at best, like Taccola's sketches. I'd say the Ghiberti cipher falls in the same category. It was a hot topic at the time. Something you'd incorporate into your works  because it was the thing to do. Protecting ideas from casual readers surely also played a role, but not the main one. <br />
<br />
In a harsh way you could say all those high-end manuscripts were fakes, pretending to be something they were not. Which was fine since the buyer did not use them for their alleged purpose anyway.<br />
<br />
I'd still like to find early illustrated copies of Vegetius work and compare them to Kyeser's war machines. Early Kyeser illustrations are mostly flat and straight full medieval, while Taccola's drawings are much more organic and humanistic, more in line with VM drawings. Yet some elements like the wavy shore line are already present in Kyeser. So the question is - were Vegetius copies illustrated before Kyeser's 'Bellifortis' or did Kyeser invent those illustration and they found their way itto later Vegetius copies - and Taccola? The origin of the illustrations appears to be complex and cross-linked but paradoxically it appears all the war machine illustrations originate from Kyeser (who copied Vegetius' text), not from an illustrated Vegetius copy. Later ones like those of Valturius from 1470s (Rosenwald 5+6), likely copied from Taccola. And Ghiberti from either of those. But I'm not sure yet.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[We have looked at Kyeser, Taccola, and other late medieval engineers as an inspiration for the VM, noticing they all contain highly similar illustrations. I would like to find the source for these illustrations. But while Kyeser as a person clearly pre-dates Taccola, this is hampered by the fact that manuscripts of those authors were copied over a considerable time-frame, likely copying from each other.<br />
<br />
The main source of medieval siege and military literature was You are not allowed to view links. <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=login">Login</a> to view., a Late Roman writer from the 4th century. His work <span style="font-style: italic;" class="mycode_i">De re militari</span>, or <span style="font-style: italic;" class="mycode_i">Epitoma rei militaris</span> remained a popular military literature until the 19th century. However, for different reasons that one might think. Jorge asked why many illustrations in the works of all authors who copied him make no sense and look like the artist had no idea about the machine depicted. The reason is the same as for fantastic and widely inaccurate plants in herbals. Vegetius himself was, as far as we know, nether a historian, soldier nor an engineer - but an aristocrat. Modern scholars are critical of his descriptions of the Roman army and note that he carelessly compiled material from different sources and time periods and is full of inconsistencies and obvious mistakes. Vegetius lived at a time of decline of the Roman Empire and reminisced a better (and obviously fictious) 'Golden Age', much like Plato's description of Sparta as an ideal state. In other words, even the original work was - basically a fake.<br />
<br />
<blockquote class="mycode_quote"><cite>Quote:</cite>Although the text was historically taken at face value during the Middle Ages and Renaissance, as an accurate contemporary work on the Roman army and as a valuable military manual, modern historians have questioned the accuracy of the claims that Vegetius made about the state of the Roman army in his time. According to Michael B. Charles "many details that he provides about the [Roman] military are simply wrong", and said that it was "doubtful" that he had any military experience, arguing that the work was "not meant to be an accurate exposition of Roman military history, or indeed [then] present-day military activities", and that only "small but nonetheless valuable nuggets" of information in the text are actually valuable for understanding the Late Roman Army. The work has also been criticised on stylistic grounds. Sydney Anglo stated that the work was "mediocre" and that "its coverage of Roman military institutions is derivative, patchy, inconsistent and repetitious", and that Vegetius blended information from vastly different time periods in an unclear and confused way, with Anglo stating that "Vegetius's account of Roman military usage was not so much anachronistic as extra-chronistic. It was outside any specific time."</blockquote>
<br />
Now why would such a faux military guide be popular for 1500 years? First, it did contain some valid organizational and strategical advice, second, it was not intended to be used by military officers. Vegetius was an aristocrat, and his audience was nobility. We must see such works in a more abstract way. The historian Werner Leng wrote about the reception of Vegetius works from the middle ages to modernity that Vegetius was rarely seen as a military field guide for officers, but more of a cultural and aesthetic guide for nobility who sought to present themselves as the successors of the Roman Empire. Also as a political and moralistic guide on leadership and organization in line with the teachings of Aristoteles or Plato.<br />
<br />
This is something we often tend to forget when we look at medieval manuscripts from a modern perspective. A herbal like Dioscorides was not created to be used by a physician to treat patients. A manuscript on warfare and engineering like Kyeser was not created to be used by a military officer or engineer. They were conversation pieces and collectibles for nobility that were meant to show the owner was familiar with the teachings of the re-discovered authorities of antiquity. Even the obviously practical notebooks of engineers like Taccola and Ghiberti were also representational. The machines are mostly useless. They are fantastic ideas, like one would draw a martian colony nowadays. Inspirational, aesthetic, fashionable. This is why we have all those copies of impossible machines. They were fancy. The question is who came up with the illustrations first? Like Dioscorides, the oldest copies of Vegetius appear to have been un-illustrated. At some point, an artist tried to create more-or less accurate illustrations of war and siege machines from the text, which were then copied further. But these were never technical drawings in a modern sense. Ideas at best, like Taccola's sketches. I'd say the Ghiberti cipher falls in the same category. It was a hot topic at the time. Something you'd incorporate into your works  because it was the thing to do. Protecting ideas from casual readers surely also played a role, but not the main one. <br />
<br />
In a harsh way you could say all those high-end manuscripts were fakes, pretending to be something they were not. Which was fine since the buyer did not use them for their alleged purpose anyway.<br />
<br />
I'd still like to find early illustrated copies of Vegetius work and compare them to Kyeser's war machines. Early Kyeser illustrations are mostly flat and straight full medieval, while Taccola's drawings are much more organic and humanistic, more in line with VM drawings. Yet some elements like the wavy shore line are already present in Kyeser. So the question is - were Vegetius copies illustrated before Kyeser's 'Bellifortis' or did Kyeser invent those illustration and they found their way itto later Vegetius copies - and Taccola? The origin of the illustrations appears to be complex and cross-linked but paradoxically it appears all the war machine illustrations originate from Kyeser (who copied Vegetius' text), not from an illustrated Vegetius copy. Later ones like those of Valturius from 1470s (Rosenwald 5+6), likely copied from Taccola. And Ghiberti from either of those. But I'm not sure yet.]]></content:encoded>
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			<title><![CDATA[The Voynich has been solved (The Internet told me so)]]></title>
			<link>https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5746.html</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2026 23:12:59 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=profile&uid=1664">asteckley</a>]]></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5746.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[Put you books away. Turn off the lights on your way out.<br />
The Voynich Manuscript has been solved!!<br />
In fact, the number of Voynich solutions is growing exponentially. Of course, the probability that any particular one is correct is decaying at an even higher rate.<br />

<br />
<img src="https://www.voynich.ninja/images/attachtypes/image.png" title="PNG Image" border="0" alt=".png" />
&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href="attachment.php?aid=15593" target="_blank" title="">voynich_youtube_total_vs_solution_claims.png</a> (Size: 486.04 KB / Downloads: 110)
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[Put you books away. Turn off the lights on your way out.<br />
The Voynich Manuscript has been solved!!<br />
In fact, the number of Voynich solutions is growing exponentially. Of course, the probability that any particular one is correct is decaying at an even higher rate.<br />

<br />
<img src="https://www.voynich.ninja/images/attachtypes/image.png" title="PNG Image" border="0" alt=".png" />
&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href="attachment.php?aid=15593" target="_blank" title="">voynich_youtube_total_vs_solution_claims.png</a> (Size: 486.04 KB / Downloads: 110)
]]></content:encoded>
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