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		<title><![CDATA[The Voynich Ninja - Voynich Talk]]></title>
		<link>https://www.voynich.ninja/</link>
		<description><![CDATA[The Voynich Ninja - https://www.voynich.ninja]]></description>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2026 05:52:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<generator>MyBB</generator>
		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[[split] Authority and the Appeal to it.]]></title>
			<link>https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6252.html</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2026 14:03:50 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=profile&uid=3212">DG97EEB</a>]]></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6252.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[<blockquote class="mycode_quote"><cite><span> (28-10-2026, 02:11 PM)</span>npcompl33t wrote:  You are not allowed to view links. <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=login">Login</a> to view.</cite><blockquote class="mycode_quote"><cite><span> (28-10-2026, 08:40 AM)</span>quimqu wrote:  You are not allowed to view links. <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=login">Login</a> to view.</cite><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><span style="color: #1a1a1a;" class="mycode_color">@npcompl33t, I agree that the hands sit at different points of your gradient. I measured it: the hand and section of each page explain 94% of where the page falls on the gradient. (My skribe text it is 97%). But that is exactly the problem. If the hands explain almost all of the gradient, the gradient cannot tell hands apart from time. That the hands follow one another in time is what needs to be shown; it can't be the starting point.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="color: #1a1a1a;" class="mycode_color">So I tried a test that can tell them apart. If the gradient is time, it should also run inside a single hand, and follow the order of that hand's folios. My text has no order inside a hand by construction, so it gives the baseline.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="color: #1a1a1a;" class="mycode_color">- Q13 (all hand 2): the main direction in which its pages differ has nothing to do with your gradient (r 0.04).</span><br />
<span style="color: #1a1a1a;" class="mycode_color">- Herbal, hand 1: a weak drift with the folio number, but mostly because of its herbal pages in the late quires. In quires 1–7 alone it is weak (p 0.10).</span><br />
<span style="color: #1a1a1a;" class="mycode_color">- Q20 (hand 3, stars): here there is something. Its pages make their own small horseshoe, on the same axis as your gradient, and my text doesn't do that. It doesn't follow the folio order, though (p 0.29).</span><br />
<br />
<span style="color: #1a1a1a;" class="mycode_color">So I would say: the big arc is the hands and sections, and inside the hands there is little, except in Q20, which looks worth a closer look.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="color: #1a1a1a;" class="mycode_color">I also read reproduce.py on your page. As far as I can see, it averages fits that were computed beforehand, and it only keeps the fits where 1a comes before 1b (and, in the other paths, the order of 3a/3b and 4a/4c is chosen). So the direction and part of the order are inputs, not results. Is there a step that goes from the text alone to the order of Q13 and Q20? With that I could run it on my text and see if it also finds an order there.</span></span></blockquote><br />
I strongly recommend you try Herbal A, because there is significant variation within Hand 1 in that section, and is where the effect would be the most noticeable. You should also note that Timm's theory is that You are not allowed to view links. <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=login">Login</a> to view., at different points in time, which would perfectly explain your results. <br />
<br />
FOr the current ordering (not sure if you are looking at an older version) -- i used ElPiGraph to fit about 1500 curves in the space to see which orderings are subject to change and which are more secured. That is discussed in You are not allowed to view links. <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=login">Login</a> to view..<br />
<br />
I independently reproduced Layfield and Davis' LSA work, that should be reproducible. As for why our methods are different, theirs uses LSA, which operates on full tokens, while mine uses glyph markov representations.</blockquote>The only problem with TT's theory is he's not a world class medieval paleographer. That doesn't mean Lisa is automatically right, but it means the barrier is higher.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote class="mycode_quote"><cite><span> (28-10-2026, 02:11 PM)</span>npcompl33t wrote:  You are not allowed to view links. <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=login">Login</a> to view.</cite><blockquote class="mycode_quote"><cite><span> (28-10-2026, 08:40 AM)</span>quimqu wrote:  You are not allowed to view links. <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=login">Login</a> to view.</cite><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><span style="color: #1a1a1a;" class="mycode_color">@npcompl33t, I agree that the hands sit at different points of your gradient. I measured it: the hand and section of each page explain 94% of where the page falls on the gradient. (My skribe text it is 97%). But that is exactly the problem. If the hands explain almost all of the gradient, the gradient cannot tell hands apart from time. That the hands follow one another in time is what needs to be shown; it can't be the starting point.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="color: #1a1a1a;" class="mycode_color">So I tried a test that can tell them apart. If the gradient is time, it should also run inside a single hand, and follow the order of that hand's folios. My text has no order inside a hand by construction, so it gives the baseline.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="color: #1a1a1a;" class="mycode_color">- Q13 (all hand 2): the main direction in which its pages differ has nothing to do with your gradient (r 0.04).</span><br />
<span style="color: #1a1a1a;" class="mycode_color">- Herbal, hand 1: a weak drift with the folio number, but mostly because of its herbal pages in the late quires. In quires 1–7 alone it is weak (p 0.10).</span><br />
<span style="color: #1a1a1a;" class="mycode_color">- Q20 (hand 3, stars): here there is something. Its pages make their own small horseshoe, on the same axis as your gradient, and my text doesn't do that. It doesn't follow the folio order, though (p 0.29).</span><br />
<br />
<span style="color: #1a1a1a;" class="mycode_color">So I would say: the big arc is the hands and sections, and inside the hands there is little, except in Q20, which looks worth a closer look.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="color: #1a1a1a;" class="mycode_color">I also read reproduce.py on your page. As far as I can see, it averages fits that were computed beforehand, and it only keeps the fits where 1a comes before 1b (and, in the other paths, the order of 3a/3b and 4a/4c is chosen). So the direction and part of the order are inputs, not results. Is there a step that goes from the text alone to the order of Q13 and Q20? With that I could run it on my text and see if it also finds an order there.</span></span></blockquote><br />
I strongly recommend you try Herbal A, because there is significant variation within Hand 1 in that section, and is where the effect would be the most noticeable. You should also note that Timm's theory is that You are not allowed to view links. <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=login">Login</a> to view., at different points in time, which would perfectly explain your results. <br />
<br />
FOr the current ordering (not sure if you are looking at an older version) -- i used ElPiGraph to fit about 1500 curves in the space to see which orderings are subject to change and which are more secured. That is discussed in You are not allowed to view links. <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=login">Login</a> to view..<br />
<br />
I independently reproduced Layfield and Davis' LSA work, that should be reproducible. As for why our methods are different, theirs uses LSA, which operates on full tokens, while mine uses glyph markov representations.</blockquote>The only problem with TT's theory is he's not a world class medieval paleographer. That doesn't mean Lisa is automatically right, but it means the barrier is higher.]]></content:encoded>
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			<title><![CDATA["Curse" or Bird Mirror?]]></title>
			<link>https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6212.html</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2026 17:31:14 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=profile&uid=1149">Bluetoes101</a>]]></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6212.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[When a social <span style="text-decoration: line-through;" class="mycode_s">bird</span> person is kept in isolation, providing a <span style="text-decoration: line-through;" class="mycode_s">mirror</span> mysterious manuscript can trigger a severe psychological phenomenon known as the "mirror trap.". Because most <span style="text-decoration: line-through;" class="mycode_s">pet bird species</span> people fail the mirror self-recognition test, they do not understand that the reflection is their own <span style="text-decoration: line-through;" class="mycode_s">body</span> mind. Instead, they perceive the reflection as a completely different, real <span style="text-decoration: line-through;" class="mycode_s">bird</span> solution.<br />
<br />
In isolation, this illusion fills a desperate biological need for a <span style="text-decoration: line-through;" class="mycode_s">flock</span> friend, but it quickly spirals into a damaging, one-sided obsession.<br />
<br />
The <span style="text-decoration: line-through;" class="mycode_s">bird</span> person becomes trapped in a loop of trying to get a reaction from a "stranger" that never vocalises back or moves independently. <br />
This causes chronic anxiety, depression, and severe mental fatigue.<br />
<br />
The <span style="text-decoration: line-through;" class="mycode_s">bird </span>person may begin violently guarding the <span style="text-decoration: line-through;" class="mycode_s">mirror</span> mysterious manuscript, treating its <span style="text-decoration: line-through;" class="mycode_s">human owners</span> peers or other <span style="text-decoration: line-through;" class="mycode_s">toys</span> people as hostile intruders. They will viciously bite or scream if anyone approaches their "friend".<br />
<br />
<span style="text-decoration: line-through;" class="mycode_s">Parrots</span> People will often stop eating, grooming themselves, or <span style="text-decoration: line-through;" class="mycode_s">playing with stimulating toys</span> communicating with other people because they refuse to leave the side of the <span style="text-decoration: line-through;" class="mycode_s">mirror</span> mysterious manuscript.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[When a social <span style="text-decoration: line-through;" class="mycode_s">bird</span> person is kept in isolation, providing a <span style="text-decoration: line-through;" class="mycode_s">mirror</span> mysterious manuscript can trigger a severe psychological phenomenon known as the "mirror trap.". Because most <span style="text-decoration: line-through;" class="mycode_s">pet bird species</span> people fail the mirror self-recognition test, they do not understand that the reflection is their own <span style="text-decoration: line-through;" class="mycode_s">body</span> mind. Instead, they perceive the reflection as a completely different, real <span style="text-decoration: line-through;" class="mycode_s">bird</span> solution.<br />
<br />
In isolation, this illusion fills a desperate biological need for a <span style="text-decoration: line-through;" class="mycode_s">flock</span> friend, but it quickly spirals into a damaging, one-sided obsession.<br />
<br />
The <span style="text-decoration: line-through;" class="mycode_s">bird</span> person becomes trapped in a loop of trying to get a reaction from a "stranger" that never vocalises back or moves independently. <br />
This causes chronic anxiety, depression, and severe mental fatigue.<br />
<br />
The <span style="text-decoration: line-through;" class="mycode_s">bird </span>person may begin violently guarding the <span style="text-decoration: line-through;" class="mycode_s">mirror</span> mysterious manuscript, treating its <span style="text-decoration: line-through;" class="mycode_s">human owners</span> peers or other <span style="text-decoration: line-through;" class="mycode_s">toys</span> people as hostile intruders. They will viciously bite or scream if anyone approaches their "friend".<br />
<br />
<span style="text-decoration: line-through;" class="mycode_s">Parrots</span> People will often stop eating, grooming themselves, or <span style="text-decoration: line-through;" class="mycode_s">playing with stimulating toys</span> communicating with other people because they refuse to leave the side of the <span style="text-decoration: line-through;" class="mycode_s">mirror</span> mysterious manuscript.]]></content:encoded>
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			<title><![CDATA[Voynich]]></title>
			<link>https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6185.html</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2026 10:39:19 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=profile&uid=4123">oceme.alt</a>]]></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6185.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[Hello everyone.<br />
<br />
Im completely new at this, just a regular person who stumbled upon the Voynich manuscript scans a little while ago, but looking at the pages, I cant help but feel that brilliant people are overthinking it. <br />
To me, it looks like a practical notebook shared by few medieval guys who used a clever visual shorthand to save expensive things and keep their recipes private.<br />
<br />
By just looking at the different handwritings I came up with 4 simple rules that make sense TO ME:<br />
<br />
1: The Loop Rule (Herbal): In the plat pages, closed-look letters like "O" "a" "d" arent single letters. They look like symbols for whole lab actions, like writting in circle every time you mean "mix". The open letters with long lines are just the normal letters completing the word.<br />
<br />
2: The Mirror Trick (Astrology): The artist who drew the stars (ye, an artist for me) changed the rules to hide his notes. In this section its the exact opposite: the long vertical lines are the main syllables, and the loops are just a single connecting letters. its like flipping a mirror to confuse outsiders. Make sense to me.<br />
<br />
3: The Quantity Rule (Recipes):  A word repeat three times in a row? For me, this is a medical recipe book (or something like that). If a tired clerk writes a word three times, he isnt crazy, he is just writting quantities without numbers.<br />
<br />
4: Ignore Decorations Rule: The one who drew the stars was clearly a showoff. He added extra loops and flares to the letters just to make them look pretty around the diagrams. If you visually erase those fancy adds, the real words become way clearer.<br />
<br />
If anyone runs this rules though a script to try and decode it, I bet theyll get a huge surprise<br />
<br />
I dont think its a complex mathematical cipher. Its just a 15th century dynamic shorthand that changes depending on wich one was holding the pen that day. <br />
I belive the psychology of the scripters directly influences their encryption style.<br />
<br />
Iam zero expert, zero researcher,  but this simple logic clicked on my head and want to share it.<br />
<br />
I hope this helps in some way<br />
<br />
<img src="https://www.voynich.ninja/images/moresmilies/heart.png" alt="Heart" title="Heart" class="smilie smilie_70" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[Hello everyone.<br />
<br />
Im completely new at this, just a regular person who stumbled upon the Voynich manuscript scans a little while ago, but looking at the pages, I cant help but feel that brilliant people are overthinking it. <br />
To me, it looks like a practical notebook shared by few medieval guys who used a clever visual shorthand to save expensive things and keep their recipes private.<br />
<br />
By just looking at the different handwritings I came up with 4 simple rules that make sense TO ME:<br />
<br />
1: The Loop Rule (Herbal): In the plat pages, closed-look letters like "O" "a" "d" arent single letters. They look like symbols for whole lab actions, like writting in circle every time you mean "mix". The open letters with long lines are just the normal letters completing the word.<br />
<br />
2: The Mirror Trick (Astrology): The artist who drew the stars (ye, an artist for me) changed the rules to hide his notes. In this section its the exact opposite: the long vertical lines are the main syllables, and the loops are just a single connecting letters. its like flipping a mirror to confuse outsiders. Make sense to me.<br />
<br />
3: The Quantity Rule (Recipes):  A word repeat three times in a row? For me, this is a medical recipe book (or something like that). If a tired clerk writes a word three times, he isnt crazy, he is just writting quantities without numbers.<br />
<br />
4: Ignore Decorations Rule: The one who drew the stars was clearly a showoff. He added extra loops and flares to the letters just to make them look pretty around the diagrams. If you visually erase those fancy adds, the real words become way clearer.<br />
<br />
If anyone runs this rules though a script to try and decode it, I bet theyll get a huge surprise<br />
<br />
I dont think its a complex mathematical cipher. Its just a 15th century dynamic shorthand that changes depending on wich one was holding the pen that day. <br />
I belive the psychology of the scripters directly influences their encryption style.<br />
<br />
Iam zero expert, zero researcher,  but this simple logic clicked on my head and want to share it.<br />
<br />
I hope this helps in some way<br />
<br />
<img src="https://www.voynich.ninja/images/moresmilies/heart.png" alt="Heart" title="Heart" class="smilie smilie_70" />]]></content:encoded>
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			<title><![CDATA[Cost to produce the Voynich manuscript]]></title>
			<link>https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6179.html</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2026 20:40:03 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=profile&uid=4115">Sephardi_Genius</a>]]></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6179.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[Hi everyone, new user, got interested in the Voynich manuscript recently as a result of watching Koen's Youtube videos  <img src="https://www.voynich.ninja/images/smilies/biggrin.png" alt="Big Grin" title="Big Grin" class="smilie smilie_4" /><br />
<br />
I was wondering if anyone could point me to a source on the price of vellum in late medieval Central Europe? I have oscillated my thoughts on whether the manuscript is an authentic piece of writing or a hoax designed to be sold as an esoteric/mysterious text, and one of the things that I have been thinking about is the cost to manufacture it. We have about 240 surviving pages, but it was probably closer to ~270, and it was written on vellum with colored inks and includes the hands of multiple people, with many sources I can find online saying five people. Needless to say, assuming it was designed to be sold as a bit of fakery, this seems like a lot of work even if you assume everybody that was working on it was doing it for free. <br />
<br />
Obviously we know that Rudolf II bought it for 600 ducats, which is an insane amount of money for a book, but that's at least 150 years after it was likely made, and I'm curious about what it likely would've cost the authors to make in the first place. My thinking is that if it had been made up by a group of broke university students or someone else looking to made a quick buck by copying a bunch of stuff that looks like a book (or a bunch of books) they'd seen earlier, they either wouldn't have had enough money to make it in the first place, or wouldn't have needed the money they could get by selling it, especially given how much you time and effort it must've cost to write all this stuff down in a way that it somewhat resembles a natural language or cipher. Anyways, thanks for the help, and I hope I haven't bothered your community with my silly question too much  <img src="https://www.voynich.ninja/images/smilies/tongue.png" alt="Tongue" title="Tongue" class="smilie smilie_5" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[Hi everyone, new user, got interested in the Voynich manuscript recently as a result of watching Koen's Youtube videos  <img src="https://www.voynich.ninja/images/smilies/biggrin.png" alt="Big Grin" title="Big Grin" class="smilie smilie_4" /><br />
<br />
I was wondering if anyone could point me to a source on the price of vellum in late medieval Central Europe? I have oscillated my thoughts on whether the manuscript is an authentic piece of writing or a hoax designed to be sold as an esoteric/mysterious text, and one of the things that I have been thinking about is the cost to manufacture it. We have about 240 surviving pages, but it was probably closer to ~270, and it was written on vellum with colored inks and includes the hands of multiple people, with many sources I can find online saying five people. Needless to say, assuming it was designed to be sold as a bit of fakery, this seems like a lot of work even if you assume everybody that was working on it was doing it for free. <br />
<br />
Obviously we know that Rudolf II bought it for 600 ducats, which is an insane amount of money for a book, but that's at least 150 years after it was likely made, and I'm curious about what it likely would've cost the authors to make in the first place. My thinking is that if it had been made up by a group of broke university students or someone else looking to made a quick buck by copying a bunch of stuff that looks like a book (or a bunch of books) they'd seen earlier, they either wouldn't have had enough money to make it in the first place, or wouldn't have needed the money they could get by selling it, especially given how much you time and effort it must've cost to write all this stuff down in a way that it somewhat resembles a natural language or cipher. Anyways, thanks for the help, and I hope I haven't bothered your community with my silly question too much  <img src="https://www.voynich.ninja/images/smilies/tongue.png" alt="Tongue" title="Tongue" class="smilie smilie_5" />]]></content:encoded>
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			<title><![CDATA[Trying to find an image someone posted that looks a lot like f75r?]]></title>
			<link>https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6169.html</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2026 08:39:33 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=profile&uid=3989">gerrydelasel</a>]]></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6169.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[A few weeks ago I ran across a post or blog where someone had found a map (I think) that looked uncannily similar to the bathing nymphs waterway on 75r. But I cannot find the webpage I was looking at! It had a bridge that was in a slightly different position. I think it looked a bit like this. Does anyone know what I'm talking about?<br />

<br />
<img src="https://www.voynich.ninja/images/attachtypes/image.png" title="JPG Image" border="0" alt=".jpg" />
&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href="attachment.php?aid=18127" target="_blank" title="">Trinity.O.2.48.jpg</a> (Size: 90.17 KB / Downloads: 166)
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[A few weeks ago I ran across a post or blog where someone had found a map (I think) that looked uncannily similar to the bathing nymphs waterway on 75r. But I cannot find the webpage I was looking at! It had a bridge that was in a slightly different position. I think it looked a bit like this. Does anyone know what I'm talking about?<br />

<br />
<img src="https://www.voynich.ninja/images/attachtypes/image.png" title="JPG Image" border="0" alt=".jpg" />
&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href="attachment.php?aid=18127" target="_blank" title="">Trinity.O.2.48.jpg</a> (Size: 90.17 KB / Downloads: 166)
]]></content:encoded>
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			<title><![CDATA[Ungrammatical repetition of the same few words]]></title>
			<link>https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6167.html</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2026 19:12:56 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=profile&uid=1818">punainerkarhu</a>]]></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6167.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[I thought of this after seeing a theory mentioned in one of Voynich Talk's videos that each glyph could be a word and if we try substituting them with some words in English or any other language we'll get same few words repeating again and again. <br />
<br />
But what if the author/s of the manuscript generated the text by repeating the same words (throwing in a few more rare words here and there) over and over again with no grammar just substituting the letters/sounds in their native language with new glyphs they invented? Basically simple substitution just no real meaning behind the text. <br />
<br />
Personally I don't think that's the case but could be worth considering as it might explain some properties of the manuscript, and I wanted to check if a similar idea was discussed before and whether someone tried mapping Voynich words to existing languages to see if some substitutions provide consistent results.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[I thought of this after seeing a theory mentioned in one of Voynich Talk's videos that each glyph could be a word and if we try substituting them with some words in English or any other language we'll get same few words repeating again and again. <br />
<br />
But what if the author/s of the manuscript generated the text by repeating the same words (throwing in a few more rare words here and there) over and over again with no grammar just substituting the letters/sounds in their native language with new glyphs they invented? Basically simple substitution just no real meaning behind the text. <br />
<br />
Personally I don't think that's the case but could be worth considering as it might explain some properties of the manuscript, and I wanted to check if a similar idea was discussed before and whether someone tried mapping Voynich words to existing languages to see if some substitutions provide consistent results.]]></content:encoded>
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			<title><![CDATA[What do other herbals actually talk about? Here's an example.]]></title>
			<link>https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6164.html</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2026 12:55:55 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=profile&uid=3989">gerrydelasel</a>]]></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6164.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[Since deciphering Voynichese will probably involve identifying an image and then guessing at what the text and labels might say about it, I wondered, what do other herbals actually say about their plants? I couldn't find any complete transcriptions online, only vague descriptions, so I translated one myself. Maybe you will find this useful too (especially if you want to become invisible or have trouble with farting!). At the very least it shows that the first word on the page is not necessarily the name of the plant, nor a name that is easy to predict.<br />
<br />
You are not allowed to view links. <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=login">Login</a> to view. is a good example from the 14th century. On page 66r &amp; 66v we find the castor oil plant, which is quite similar to Voynich You are not allowed to view links. <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=login">Login</a> to view..<br />

<br />
<img src="https://www.voynich.ninja/images/attachtypes/image.png" title="JPG Image" border="0" alt=".jpg" />
&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href="attachment.php?aid=18100" target="_blank" title="">Trinity.O.2.48.jpg</a> (Size: 69.28 KB / Downloads: 243)
 
<br />
<img src="https://www.voynich.ninja/images/attachtypes/image.png" title="JPG Image" border="0" alt=".jpg" />
&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href="attachment.php?aid=18102" target="_blank" title="">VOM_f6v.jpg</a> (Size: 86.25 KB / Downloads: 243)
<br />
<br />
Here is my transcription of the Latin. If you can fill in any of the gaps, please let me know!<br />

<br />
<img src="https://www.voynich.ninja/images/attachtypes/image.png" title="JPG Image" border="0" alt=".jpg" />
&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href="attachment.php?aid=18103" target="_blank" title="">Trinity.O.2.48latin.jpg</a> (Size: 166.36 KB / Downloads: 250)
<br />
<br />
And here is the English translation:<br />
<br />
1. Herb name: Pentadatillus; others call it Palma Christi, others <span style="text-decoration: line-through;" class="mycode_s">Castos Oro</span> guardian of the garden, others <br />
2. Priapiscus, and others Girasol; the Greeks call it Tebeet, and the Gauls call it Perga Major. Herb grows <br />
3. in gardens, fields, and mountains, similar to hellebore. Herb has broad leaves, <br />
4. split like a wild fig tree, and it bears a certain round pod like wild burdock. <br />
5. In this small pod, something is enclosed that resembles a certain worm, <br />
6. common name: cetha. This herb is called Girasol because its leaves turn <br />
7. according to the turning of the sun; just as the sun beams brightly, so these leaves turn themselves with the sun. The flower <br />
8. does the same. The crushed seed of this plant's black pods, when drunk with wine, <br />
9. warm, relieves [indecipherable]. [Indecipherable] is spherical, and [indecipherable] <br />
10. madness, and when eaten it is beneficial against bloating/flatulence, which it solves. Likewise, its seed gives <br />
11. the virtue of walking invisibly, according to what is found in Dioscorides, who <br />
12. says expressly: 'Take nine seeds of this herb during the harvest, and plant them<br />
13. inside the head of a black [indecipherable], and place it in the earth.' <br />
14. And [he says words over the seeds] so that he may know that <br />
15. in the name of the Father he will be seen by no one. This herb must obey. <br />
16. It is to be gathered in October; crescent moon. And while you are gathering it, <br />
17. be clean and wash your hands, feet, and face with <span style="text-decoration: line-through;" class="mycode_s">clean</span> holy water. <br />
18. And when you gather it, say this prayer: '[Indecipherable], O herb, <br />
19. by the great name of the Lord Atah Gibor Leolam Adonai, and by Blessed Mary, and <br />
20. by the virtues through which God created heaven, earth, the sea, and all things that are in them, <br />
21. and by the saints of heaven and earth: O Lord God of Hosts, <br />
22. hear my prayer, so that you may grant to this herb power and victory, that it may be of help <br />
23. to me in any of my needs.' Say the Lord's prayer.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[Since deciphering Voynichese will probably involve identifying an image and then guessing at what the text and labels might say about it, I wondered, what do other herbals actually say about their plants? I couldn't find any complete transcriptions online, only vague descriptions, so I translated one myself. Maybe you will find this useful too (especially if you want to become invisible or have trouble with farting!). At the very least it shows that the first word on the page is not necessarily the name of the plant, nor a name that is easy to predict.<br />
<br />
You are not allowed to view links. <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=login">Login</a> to view. is a good example from the 14th century. On page 66r &amp; 66v we find the castor oil plant, which is quite similar to Voynich You are not allowed to view links. <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=login">Login</a> to view..<br />

<br />
<img src="https://www.voynich.ninja/images/attachtypes/image.png" title="JPG Image" border="0" alt=".jpg" />
&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href="attachment.php?aid=18100" target="_blank" title="">Trinity.O.2.48.jpg</a> (Size: 69.28 KB / Downloads: 243)
 
<br />
<img src="https://www.voynich.ninja/images/attachtypes/image.png" title="JPG Image" border="0" alt=".jpg" />
&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href="attachment.php?aid=18102" target="_blank" title="">VOM_f6v.jpg</a> (Size: 86.25 KB / Downloads: 243)
<br />
<br />
Here is my transcription of the Latin. If you can fill in any of the gaps, please let me know!<br />

<br />
<img src="https://www.voynich.ninja/images/attachtypes/image.png" title="JPG Image" border="0" alt=".jpg" />
&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href="attachment.php?aid=18103" target="_blank" title="">Trinity.O.2.48latin.jpg</a> (Size: 166.36 KB / Downloads: 250)
<br />
<br />
And here is the English translation:<br />
<br />
1. Herb name: Pentadatillus; others call it Palma Christi, others <span style="text-decoration: line-through;" class="mycode_s">Castos Oro</span> guardian of the garden, others <br />
2. Priapiscus, and others Girasol; the Greeks call it Tebeet, and the Gauls call it Perga Major. Herb grows <br />
3. in gardens, fields, and mountains, similar to hellebore. Herb has broad leaves, <br />
4. split like a wild fig tree, and it bears a certain round pod like wild burdock. <br />
5. In this small pod, something is enclosed that resembles a certain worm, <br />
6. common name: cetha. This herb is called Girasol because its leaves turn <br />
7. according to the turning of the sun; just as the sun beams brightly, so these leaves turn themselves with the sun. The flower <br />
8. does the same. The crushed seed of this plant's black pods, when drunk with wine, <br />
9. warm, relieves [indecipherable]. [Indecipherable] is spherical, and [indecipherable] <br />
10. madness, and when eaten it is beneficial against bloating/flatulence, which it solves. Likewise, its seed gives <br />
11. the virtue of walking invisibly, according to what is found in Dioscorides, who <br />
12. says expressly: 'Take nine seeds of this herb during the harvest, and plant them<br />
13. inside the head of a black [indecipherable], and place it in the earth.' <br />
14. And [he says words over the seeds] so that he may know that <br />
15. in the name of the Father he will be seen by no one. This herb must obey. <br />
16. It is to be gathered in October; crescent moon. And while you are gathering it, <br />
17. be clean and wash your hands, feet, and face with <span style="text-decoration: line-through;" class="mycode_s">clean</span> holy water. <br />
18. And when you gather it, say this prayer: '[Indecipherable], O herb, <br />
19. by the great name of the Lord Atah Gibor Leolam Adonai, and by Blessed Mary, and <br />
20. by the virtues through which God created heaven, earth, the sea, and all things that are in them, <br />
21. and by the saints of heaven and earth: O Lord God of Hosts, <br />
22. hear my prayer, so that you may grant to this herb power and victory, that it may be of help <br />
23. to me in any of my needs.' Say the Lord's prayer.]]></content:encoded>
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		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[How is the rosettes foldout attached to the binding?]]></title>
			<link>https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6141.html</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2026 11:36:10 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=profile&uid=3989">gerrydelasel</a>]]></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6141.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[How is the rosettes fold out attached in the manuscript? Is it glued to the back of another page?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[How is the rosettes fold out attached in the manuscript? Is it glued to the back of another page?]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[Voynich In Person]]></title>
			<link>https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6137.html</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2026 16:18:36 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=profile&uid=4024">medievalmaxxer</a>]]></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6137.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[Theoretical question: If you ever had the chance to see the Voynich in person, what's one thing you would look for/prioritize that's harder to see digitally/would only come across in person?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[Theoretical question: If you ever had the chance to see the Voynich in person, what's one thing you would look for/prioritize that's harder to see digitally/would only come across in person?]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[Tiktok Theorist slop]]></title>
			<link>https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6114.html</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2026 17:03:08 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=profile&uid=4024">medievalmaxxer</a>]]></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6114.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[Hey,<br />
<br />
has anyone else seen the current theory floating around Tiktok right now? I feel like I'm going crazy looking at all of it... completely unfounded.<br />
<br />
For those of you who haven't seen it, a bunch of new agers are saying that the plants in the VMS (specifically 20r) are grown from period blood and moon water.... based on a video a woman made filming a plant that supposedly grew from her period blood. I won't link specifics for my own sake, but a simple search for the VMS on TikTok reveals a slew of videos that people are making on this. There's also some claims that the VMS was written by a female coven. It's obviously extreme pseudoscience, but I was wondering what y'all thought.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[Hey,<br />
<br />
has anyone else seen the current theory floating around Tiktok right now? I feel like I'm going crazy looking at all of it... completely unfounded.<br />
<br />
For those of you who haven't seen it, a bunch of new agers are saying that the plants in the VMS (specifically 20r) are grown from period blood and moon water.... based on a video a woman made filming a plant that supposedly grew from her period blood. I won't link specifics for my own sake, but a simple search for the VMS on TikTok reveals a slew of videos that people are making on this. There's also some claims that the VMS was written by a female coven. It's obviously extreme pseudoscience, but I was wondering what y'all thought.]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[Entropy and visual aesthetics]]></title>
			<link>https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6111.html</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2026 20:04:25 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=profile&uid=3919">Grzechu</a>]]></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6111.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font">It's my first post and English is not my mother tongue. </span></span><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font">Some thoughts about entropy and the visual aspects of Voynichese, if I understand it correctly. Without delving deep into statistics or using technical language.<br />
<br />
</span></span> <br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font">Much has been written about low entropy of the glyphs, but it seems to me that it is usually considered in isolation from the visual compatibility of that glyphs or the visual aesthetics of the script (call it what you will; it is largely subjective, dependent on human feelings and individual preferences – and harder to define, yet its existence cannot be denied). In my view, this yields in an incomplete picture of the puzzle, because these two issues are inextricably linked.</span></span><br />
<br />
<div style="text-align: left;" class="mycode_align"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font">It is possible to use glyphs from the VMS to write a “text” with much lower entropy than actual Voynichese but without regard for that kind of aesthetics. I'm mean a system in which the shape of the individual glyphs themselves does not suggest a more or less probable order. An example below.</span></span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;" class="mycode_align"><hr class="mycode_hr" />
</div>
<div style="text-align: left;" class="mycode_align"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font">
<br />
<img src="https://www.voynich.ninja/images/attachtypes/image.png" title="JPG Image" border="0" alt=".jpg" />
&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href="attachment.php?aid=17818" target="_blank" title="">pseudotext.jpg</a> (Size: 143.08 KB / Downloads: 103)
</span></span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;" class="mycode_align"><hr class="mycode_hr" />
</div>
<div style="text-align: left;" class="mycode_align"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font">Is the low conditional entropy intentional, or is it rather a side effect of text production, much like many of its other statistical properties that the author of the VMS might not have even cared about?</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
If the text is meaningless and was primarily intended to “look nice” and alongside the illustrations to imitate only a genuine herbal, a treatise on women's health, astronomy etc. (while also being easy to replicate through minor modifications), then low entropy is merely a side effect. </span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
If Voynichese conceals some meaning (whether it is a natural or artificial language, or a cipher), then the author must have focused primarily on that semantic meaning of the source text – a task far, far, far more difficult than merely attending to the aesthetic aspect of a pseudo-text.</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
No one has succeeded in creating a genuine cipher similar to Voynichese. I'm setting aside discussions regarding a “verbose cipher”, though that approach also presents a number of problems.</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
In any case the codemakers always (almost always?) want to conceal any patterns in the ciphertext, they strive for the highest possible entropy and are not care of visual aesthetics.</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
To put it simply: the creators of writing systems were likely guided by the goal of representing the sounds of a given language in graphic form. They certainly did not create alphabets with the intention that some letters would visually harmonize with some others – or fail to do so – to varying degrees; that would have been a major limitation.</span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
Below are an ordinary text and the anagramm version. Does anyone who doesn't speak Polish find either of them visually or aesthetically more cohesive or “valid”?</span></span></div>
<br />
<div style="text-align: left;" class="mycode_align"><hr class="mycode_hr" />
<br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font">
<br />
<img src="https://www.voynich.ninja/images/attachtypes/image.png" title="JPG Image" border="0" alt=".jpg" />
&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href="attachment.php?aid=17819" target="_blank" title="">saragossa.jpg</a> (Size: 116.75 KB / Downloads: 103)
</span></span><br />
<br />
<hr class="mycode_hr" />
</div>
<div style="text-align: left;" class="mycode_align">
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font">An ordinary Georgian text and the text with randomly shuffled letters</span></span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;" class="mycode_align"><hr class="mycode_hr" />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font">
<br />
<img src="https://www.voynich.ninja/images/attachtypes/image.png" title="JPG Image" border="0" alt=".jpg" />
&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href="attachment.php?aid=17820" target="_blank" title="">georgian.jpg</a> (Size: 201.09 KB / Downloads: 102)
</span></span><br />
<hr class="mycode_hr" />
<br />
</div>
<div style="text-align: left;" class="mycode_align">
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font">An ordinary Russian and Ceasar cipher</span></span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;" class="mycode_align"><hr class="mycode_hr" />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font">
<br />
<img src="https://www.voynich.ninja/images/attachtypes/image.png" title="JPG Image" border="0" alt=".jpg" />
&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href="attachment.php?aid=17821" target="_blank" title="">picnic.jpg</a> (Size: 187.05 KB / Downloads: 102)
</span></span><br />
<hr class="mycode_hr" />
</div>
<div style="text-align: left;" class="mycode_align">
<br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font">Letters are combined to each other to graphically record words that carry semantic meaning, not because one letter looks more elegant next to the another. Orthography and spelling rules have nothing to do with the shape of the letters.</span></span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;" class="mycode_align"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
Unless such writing systems exist?</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
(One might say: positional variants, like in Arabic. But it’s something else, and in my opinion, that doesn’t really explain the VMS).</span></span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;" class="mycode_align">
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font">The same applies to word length – it is determined by the meaning of the words, not by the available writing space (such as wrapping around an illustration or the end of a line).</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
But Voynichese works differently. It is a unique script, likely created for the one project only.<br />
It's “orthography” is based on a set of rules that some are attempting to describe or systematize. Many regularities are evident and well-known, yet there is no comprehensive, definitive theory.</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
And there is a very important remark: essentially, there are no hard-and-fast rules, because exceptions can always be found. For example, EVA-i is typically preceded by EVA-a and followed by another EVA-i or EVA-n, sometimes EVA-r or EVA-m (glyphs based on a diagonal stroke and – one might say – visually compatible). However, on f107r, there are “weird” vords as “okirol”, “okil” (appearing twice, one with the “k” strangely connected to the “i”), “qokiil”, “otiir” (if I am “reading” it correctly), and also “taidy”. Are these “errors”, “exceptions” or rather the result of the author not being bound by any rules, free to experiment or indulge in momentary whims?</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
Someone wrote on this forum that vords ending in “e” look unfinished. Why does a final “e” look bad, while a final “ey” or “edy” look nice? Is it unfathomable orthography, a mysterious encryption algorithm, or simply subjective aesthetic preference?</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
There is common English pair “th” or “ch” and uncommon “cj” or “gv”; there is common Voynichese EVA-kch or EVA-or and uncommon or rare EVA-er, EVA-ni or EVA-ag. Are those things comparable?</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
Are certain vords “invalid” due to entropy (or “grammar”?), or rather because of aesthetic considerations?</span></span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;" class="mycode_align"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
Perhaps the EVA-ra pair (a line-based glyph followed by the one with the shape of a curve on its left side) or EVA-ld might seem “invalid” to some modern researchers, but for the author, it was perfectly valid? </span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
Maybe for the author the EVA-in and EVA-or pairs looked equally aesthetically and it doesn't matter whether the adjacent glyphs are based on a diagonal stroke, a curve, or something else?</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
Perhabs the author himself might have considered the vords like aiip or daiidy “uglier” or less preferable, yet he left such vords as they were and did not cross anything out?</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
Maybe in most vords with final EVA-ny, the EVA-y served merely to fill space at the end of a line or next to an illustration?</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
And so on, and so forth...</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
Before the Manuscript was written, a set of glyphs had to be devised. Perhaps the creative process – whatever inspired the author – simply unfolded in such a way that, through trial and error, in some sense by chance, a collection of glyphs emerged with characteristics allowing some to fit together visually better than others (while also enabling many of glyphs to be used interchangeably to easily generate new vords). And this was enough to achieve the primary goal: cool-looking gibberish, “an elegant enigma”? </span></span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;" class="mycode_align"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
Or is it more likely that all this elegance, the “dance of glyphs”, was merely an accompaniment to the fundamental objective of encoding actual content? An accompaniment that was a side effect (is this even possible?), or an accompaniment that makes the encryption algorithm much more complex?</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
<br />
While writing these subjective reflections, I also had in mind the work of various people, including Luke Lindemann, Claire Bowern, René Zandbergen, Jorge Stolfi, Torsten Timm, Brian Cham.<br />
</span></span></div>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font">It's my first post and English is not my mother tongue. </span></span><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font">Some thoughts about entropy and the visual aspects of Voynichese, if I understand it correctly. Without delving deep into statistics or using technical language.<br />
<br />
</span></span> <br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font">Much has been written about low entropy of the glyphs, but it seems to me that it is usually considered in isolation from the visual compatibility of that glyphs or the visual aesthetics of the script (call it what you will; it is largely subjective, dependent on human feelings and individual preferences – and harder to define, yet its existence cannot be denied). In my view, this yields in an incomplete picture of the puzzle, because these two issues are inextricably linked.</span></span><br />
<br />
<div style="text-align: left;" class="mycode_align"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font">It is possible to use glyphs from the VMS to write a “text” with much lower entropy than actual Voynichese but without regard for that kind of aesthetics. I'm mean a system in which the shape of the individual glyphs themselves does not suggest a more or less probable order. An example below.</span></span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;" class="mycode_align"><hr class="mycode_hr" />
</div>
<div style="text-align: left;" class="mycode_align"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font">
<br />
<img src="https://www.voynich.ninja/images/attachtypes/image.png" title="JPG Image" border="0" alt=".jpg" />
&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href="attachment.php?aid=17818" target="_blank" title="">pseudotext.jpg</a> (Size: 143.08 KB / Downloads: 103)
</span></span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;" class="mycode_align"><hr class="mycode_hr" />
</div>
<div style="text-align: left;" class="mycode_align"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font">Is the low conditional entropy intentional, or is it rather a side effect of text production, much like many of its other statistical properties that the author of the VMS might not have even cared about?</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
If the text is meaningless and was primarily intended to “look nice” and alongside the illustrations to imitate only a genuine herbal, a treatise on women's health, astronomy etc. (while also being easy to replicate through minor modifications), then low entropy is merely a side effect. </span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
If Voynichese conceals some meaning (whether it is a natural or artificial language, or a cipher), then the author must have focused primarily on that semantic meaning of the source text – a task far, far, far more difficult than merely attending to the aesthetic aspect of a pseudo-text.</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
No one has succeeded in creating a genuine cipher similar to Voynichese. I'm setting aside discussions regarding a “verbose cipher”, though that approach also presents a number of problems.</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
In any case the codemakers always (almost always?) want to conceal any patterns in the ciphertext, they strive for the highest possible entropy and are not care of visual aesthetics.</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
To put it simply: the creators of writing systems were likely guided by the goal of representing the sounds of a given language in graphic form. They certainly did not create alphabets with the intention that some letters would visually harmonize with some others – or fail to do so – to varying degrees; that would have been a major limitation.</span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
Below are an ordinary text and the anagramm version. Does anyone who doesn't speak Polish find either of them visually or aesthetically more cohesive or “valid”?</span></span></div>
<br />
<div style="text-align: left;" class="mycode_align"><hr class="mycode_hr" />
<br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font">
<br />
<img src="https://www.voynich.ninja/images/attachtypes/image.png" title="JPG Image" border="0" alt=".jpg" />
&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href="attachment.php?aid=17819" target="_blank" title="">saragossa.jpg</a> (Size: 116.75 KB / Downloads: 103)
</span></span><br />
<br />
<hr class="mycode_hr" />
</div>
<div style="text-align: left;" class="mycode_align">
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font">An ordinary Georgian text and the text with randomly shuffled letters</span></span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;" class="mycode_align"><hr class="mycode_hr" />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font">
<br />
<img src="https://www.voynich.ninja/images/attachtypes/image.png" title="JPG Image" border="0" alt=".jpg" />
&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href="attachment.php?aid=17820" target="_blank" title="">georgian.jpg</a> (Size: 201.09 KB / Downloads: 102)
</span></span><br />
<hr class="mycode_hr" />
<br />
</div>
<div style="text-align: left;" class="mycode_align">
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font">An ordinary Russian and Ceasar cipher</span></span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;" class="mycode_align"><hr class="mycode_hr" />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font">
<br />
<img src="https://www.voynich.ninja/images/attachtypes/image.png" title="JPG Image" border="0" alt=".jpg" />
&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href="attachment.php?aid=17821" target="_blank" title="">picnic.jpg</a> (Size: 187.05 KB / Downloads: 102)
</span></span><br />
<hr class="mycode_hr" />
</div>
<div style="text-align: left;" class="mycode_align">
<br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font">Letters are combined to each other to graphically record words that carry semantic meaning, not because one letter looks more elegant next to the another. Orthography and spelling rules have nothing to do with the shape of the letters.</span></span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;" class="mycode_align"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
Unless such writing systems exist?</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
(One might say: positional variants, like in Arabic. But it’s something else, and in my opinion, that doesn’t really explain the VMS).</span></span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;" class="mycode_align">
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font">The same applies to word length – it is determined by the meaning of the words, not by the available writing space (such as wrapping around an illustration or the end of a line).</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
But Voynichese works differently. It is a unique script, likely created for the one project only.<br />
It's “orthography” is based on a set of rules that some are attempting to describe or systematize. Many regularities are evident and well-known, yet there is no comprehensive, definitive theory.</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
And there is a very important remark: essentially, there are no hard-and-fast rules, because exceptions can always be found. For example, EVA-i is typically preceded by EVA-a and followed by another EVA-i or EVA-n, sometimes EVA-r or EVA-m (glyphs based on a diagonal stroke and – one might say – visually compatible). However, on f107r, there are “weird” vords as “okirol”, “okil” (appearing twice, one with the “k” strangely connected to the “i”), “qokiil”, “otiir” (if I am “reading” it correctly), and also “taidy”. Are these “errors”, “exceptions” or rather the result of the author not being bound by any rules, free to experiment or indulge in momentary whims?</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
Someone wrote on this forum that vords ending in “e” look unfinished. Why does a final “e” look bad, while a final “ey” or “edy” look nice? Is it unfathomable orthography, a mysterious encryption algorithm, or simply subjective aesthetic preference?</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
There is common English pair “th” or “ch” and uncommon “cj” or “gv”; there is common Voynichese EVA-kch or EVA-or and uncommon or rare EVA-er, EVA-ni or EVA-ag. Are those things comparable?</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
Are certain vords “invalid” due to entropy (or “grammar”?), or rather because of aesthetic considerations?</span></span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;" class="mycode_align"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
Perhaps the EVA-ra pair (a line-based glyph followed by the one with the shape of a curve on its left side) or EVA-ld might seem “invalid” to some modern researchers, but for the author, it was perfectly valid? </span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
Maybe for the author the EVA-in and EVA-or pairs looked equally aesthetically and it doesn't matter whether the adjacent glyphs are based on a diagonal stroke, a curve, or something else?</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
Perhabs the author himself might have considered the vords like aiip or daiidy “uglier” or less preferable, yet he left such vords as they were and did not cross anything out?</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
Maybe in most vords with final EVA-ny, the EVA-y served merely to fill space at the end of a line or next to an illustration?</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
And so on, and so forth...</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
Before the Manuscript was written, a set of glyphs had to be devised. Perhaps the creative process – whatever inspired the author – simply unfolded in such a way that, through trial and error, in some sense by chance, a collection of glyphs emerged with characteristics allowing some to fit together visually better than others (while also enabling many of glyphs to be used interchangeably to easily generate new vords). And this was enough to achieve the primary goal: cool-looking gibberish, “an elegant enigma”? </span></span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;" class="mycode_align"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
Or is it more likely that all this elegance, the “dance of glyphs”, was merely an accompaniment to the fundamental objective of encoding actual content? An accompaniment that was a side effect (is this even possible?), or an accompaniment that makes the encryption algorithm much more complex?</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-family: Arial;" class="mycode_font"><br />
<br />
While writing these subjective reflections, I also had in mind the work of various people, including Luke Lindemann, Claire Bowern, René Zandbergen, Jorge Stolfi, Torsten Timm, Brian Cham.<br />
</span></span></div>]]></content:encoded>
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			<title><![CDATA[Could the Voynich Author Be a "Ramanujan-style" Anomaly?]]></title>
			<link>https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6102.html</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2026 11:31:38 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=profile&uid=3994">chenxiang</a>]]></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6102.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[Body:<br />
<br />
Hi everyone. Since the title is quite short, let me expand on it right here: I want to share a thought experiment about whether the author of the Voynich Manuscript could have been a "Ramanujan-style" anomaly.<br />
<br />
Let me start by introducing someone I find more and more absurd the more I think about him: Srinivasa Ramanujan. He was an Indian mathematician, born in 1887 and died in 1920, only 32 years old. He had almost no formal higher education in mathematics and taught himself from a book of formulas. Later he wrote to the British mathematician Hardy and enclosed a pile of formulas. Hardy first thought he was a madman, but the more he looked, the more shocked he became.<br />
<br />
Ramanujan left behind nearly 4,000 mathematical formulas, propositions, and results. Many had no derivation at all—just answers. He said a goddess told him in his dreams. At the time, many mathematicians couldn't understand them, and some even thought they were nonsense. But later? Most were proven correct, a few were wrong, and many remain unproven to this day. Even more absurdly, his work later showed up in modular forms, black hole entropy, string theory, and other fields. Hardy reportedly rated him 100 and himself 25.<br />
<br />
I've always felt Ramanujan was not a genius in the ordinary sense. Several things about him are too anomalous:<br />
<br />
No process: often no derivation, just the answer;<br />
<br />
Pure intuition: as if he could directly "see" the result in his head;<br />
<br />
Sustained output: not one lucky hit, but thousands of results;<br />
<br />
High accuracy: most were later confirmed to be correct;<br />
<br />
Ahead of his time: many results were only understood decades or centuries later;<br />
<br />
Mysterious origin: he said a goddess came to him in dreams; no one can explain how he did it.<br />
<br />
So some people say Ramanujan's existence shows that the upper limit of humanity is not a fixed ceiling, but a hole that is occasionally punched through by some anomaly.<br />
<br />
Then I thought of the Voynich Manuscript. It is a medieval book, carbon-dated to around 1404–1438. It is full of an unknown script, with illustrations of plants, astronomy, human figures, and so on. For centuries, no one has been able to decipher it. It is not simple gibberish, because its statistical features resemble those of natural language—word frequency, information entropy, and so on look like language. Who wrote it, what the script is, and why it was written remain a complete mystery.<br />
<br />
So I had a thought experiment: If Ramanujan could write down large numbers of formulas that no one understood at the time and that were later verified, could the author of the Voynich Manuscript also have been some kind of “Ramanujan-style” anomaly?<br />
<br />
Not Ramanujan in the mathematical sense, but rather: someone who had a system in his head that we still cannot decode, or who could directly “see” some kind of structure and wrote it down in an unknown script. We can't understand it, just as people at the time couldn't understand Ramanujan.<br />
<br />
If we put Ramanujan and the Voynich Manuscript author side by side, the shared ingredients might be:<br />
<br />
No process: Ramanujan had no derivations; the manuscript has no process we can read;<br />
<br />
Pure intuition: Ramanujan said a goddess came to him in dreams; the manuscript author may also have drawn on some kind of intuition or mystical system we don't understand;<br />
<br />
Sustained output: Ramanujan left nearly 4,000 results; the manuscript is also many pages of sustained writing;<br />
<br />
High accuracy / ahead of its time: Ramanujan has been verified; if there is real knowledge behind the manuscript, it might also be correct and ahead of its time—we just can't verify it;<br />
<br />
Mysterious origin: Ramanujan's source is mysterious; the manuscript's author, script, and purpose are all unknown.<br />
<br />
Of course, the biggest difference is: Ramanujan's work can be verified. A mathematical formula is either right or wrong, and later generations can prove it. The Voynich Manuscript cannot be verified. We haven't even found its encoding rules, so we have no idea whether there is real knowledge in it at all.<br />
<br />
So I'm not saying the manuscript is definitely real knowledge, nor that its author was definitely a second Ramanujan. I just think Ramanujan's existence suggests there may have been more than one of these “glitch accounts” in human history. Some left behind verifiable mathematics; others left behind a black box we still can't open.<br />
<br />
Could the Voynich Manuscript be that kind of black box? If there really is knowledge behind it, could its author also be a Ramanujan-style figure? Only instead of leaving verifiable formulas, he left a system we haven't been able to crack for centuries.<br />
<br />
I'm only 16, so this is just a speculation. I know there are probably many counterarguments, but I still wanted to put it out there as an idea.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[Body:<br />
<br />
Hi everyone. Since the title is quite short, let me expand on it right here: I want to share a thought experiment about whether the author of the Voynich Manuscript could have been a "Ramanujan-style" anomaly.<br />
<br />
Let me start by introducing someone I find more and more absurd the more I think about him: Srinivasa Ramanujan. He was an Indian mathematician, born in 1887 and died in 1920, only 32 years old. He had almost no formal higher education in mathematics and taught himself from a book of formulas. Later he wrote to the British mathematician Hardy and enclosed a pile of formulas. Hardy first thought he was a madman, but the more he looked, the more shocked he became.<br />
<br />
Ramanujan left behind nearly 4,000 mathematical formulas, propositions, and results. Many had no derivation at all—just answers. He said a goddess told him in his dreams. At the time, many mathematicians couldn't understand them, and some even thought they were nonsense. But later? Most were proven correct, a few were wrong, and many remain unproven to this day. Even more absurdly, his work later showed up in modular forms, black hole entropy, string theory, and other fields. Hardy reportedly rated him 100 and himself 25.<br />
<br />
I've always felt Ramanujan was not a genius in the ordinary sense. Several things about him are too anomalous:<br />
<br />
No process: often no derivation, just the answer;<br />
<br />
Pure intuition: as if he could directly "see" the result in his head;<br />
<br />
Sustained output: not one lucky hit, but thousands of results;<br />
<br />
High accuracy: most were later confirmed to be correct;<br />
<br />
Ahead of his time: many results were only understood decades or centuries later;<br />
<br />
Mysterious origin: he said a goddess came to him in dreams; no one can explain how he did it.<br />
<br />
So some people say Ramanujan's existence shows that the upper limit of humanity is not a fixed ceiling, but a hole that is occasionally punched through by some anomaly.<br />
<br />
Then I thought of the Voynich Manuscript. It is a medieval book, carbon-dated to around 1404–1438. It is full of an unknown script, with illustrations of plants, astronomy, human figures, and so on. For centuries, no one has been able to decipher it. It is not simple gibberish, because its statistical features resemble those of natural language—word frequency, information entropy, and so on look like language. Who wrote it, what the script is, and why it was written remain a complete mystery.<br />
<br />
So I had a thought experiment: If Ramanujan could write down large numbers of formulas that no one understood at the time and that were later verified, could the author of the Voynich Manuscript also have been some kind of “Ramanujan-style” anomaly?<br />
<br />
Not Ramanujan in the mathematical sense, but rather: someone who had a system in his head that we still cannot decode, or who could directly “see” some kind of structure and wrote it down in an unknown script. We can't understand it, just as people at the time couldn't understand Ramanujan.<br />
<br />
If we put Ramanujan and the Voynich Manuscript author side by side, the shared ingredients might be:<br />
<br />
No process: Ramanujan had no derivations; the manuscript has no process we can read;<br />
<br />
Pure intuition: Ramanujan said a goddess came to him in dreams; the manuscript author may also have drawn on some kind of intuition or mystical system we don't understand;<br />
<br />
Sustained output: Ramanujan left nearly 4,000 results; the manuscript is also many pages of sustained writing;<br />
<br />
High accuracy / ahead of its time: Ramanujan has been verified; if there is real knowledge behind the manuscript, it might also be correct and ahead of its time—we just can't verify it;<br />
<br />
Mysterious origin: Ramanujan's source is mysterious; the manuscript's author, script, and purpose are all unknown.<br />
<br />
Of course, the biggest difference is: Ramanujan's work can be verified. A mathematical formula is either right or wrong, and later generations can prove it. The Voynich Manuscript cannot be verified. We haven't even found its encoding rules, so we have no idea whether there is real knowledge in it at all.<br />
<br />
So I'm not saying the manuscript is definitely real knowledge, nor that its author was definitely a second Ramanujan. I just think Ramanujan's existence suggests there may have been more than one of these “glitch accounts” in human history. Some left behind verifiable mathematics; others left behind a black box we still can't open.<br />
<br />
Could the Voynich Manuscript be that kind of black box? If there really is knowledge behind it, could its author also be a Ramanujan-style figure? Only instead of leaving verifiable formulas, he left a system we haven't been able to crack for centuries.<br />
<br />
I'm only 16, so this is just a speculation. I know there are probably many counterarguments, but I still wanted to put it out there as an idea.]]></content:encoded>
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			<title><![CDATA[Alchemy Theory]]></title>
			<link>https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6101.html</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2026 10:19:42 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=profile&uid=4008">Maks1</a>]]></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6101.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[Let me clarify right away: I did not use AI or anything like that. I don't speak English, so I used a translator. I apologize for any errors.<br />
<br />
Have a good day! Could you tell me if you are considering the alchemical theory? The first symbols in the text resemble the graphic symbols of alchemy from that period. It seems to me that the botanical section graphically shows the apparatus itself or part of it and the reaction taking place inside it, represented by plants and roots. Perhaps it even encodes the element used. In the text, the first symbol denotes the process of heating, cooling, and so on. Then comes the result. It seems to me that it is about obtaining some element through distillation. I think the author was experimenting and mixing substances, and perhaps was describing not formulas, but what they saw with their own eyes — the reaction process itself. What do you think about this? Are there similar theories? Could you tell me what devices were used in the past to tell time?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[Let me clarify right away: I did not use AI or anything like that. I don't speak English, so I used a translator. I apologize for any errors.<br />
<br />
Have a good day! Could you tell me if you are considering the alchemical theory? The first symbols in the text resemble the graphic symbols of alchemy from that period. It seems to me that the botanical section graphically shows the apparatus itself or part of it and the reaction taking place inside it, represented by plants and roots. Perhaps it even encodes the element used. In the text, the first symbol denotes the process of heating, cooling, and so on. Then comes the result. It seems to me that it is about obtaining some element through distillation. I think the author was experimenting and mixing substances, and perhaps was describing not formulas, but what they saw with their own eyes — the reaction process itself. What do you think about this? Are there similar theories? Could you tell me what devices were used in the past to tell time?]]></content:encoded>
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			<title><![CDATA[[split] Early 15thC German Herbal & Bestiary (Augsburg, Cod. II.1.2° 109)]]></title>
			<link>https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6099.html</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2026 21:02:40 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=profile&uid=3212">DG97EEB</a>]]></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6099.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[I don't think this Manuscript has been discussed You are not allowed to view links. <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=login">Login</a> to view.<br />
<br />
It's Augsburg, early 15th Century herbal and bestiary. .. I have looked at my own archive and Google and it hasn't turned up... It was owned by a prominent Artz/apothecary family whose work later appeared in a Hartlieb..<br />
<br />
c. 1403–1409: Produced in southern Germany on paper; some later additions use paper dated 1428–1436.<br />
1407: A note records a visit by Anzinus, son of Jörg Tömlinger, a Munich apothecary, placing the manuscript in a Munich pharmaceutical milieu.<br />
Contains extensive medical, pharmaceutical and herbal material, including more than 200 plant images, followed by an illustrated bestiary of about 73 animal species.<br />
By the 15th century it belonged to the Benedictine abbey of St Mang at Füssen, confirmed by an ownership inscription.<br />
After the abbey was secularised in 1803, its library passed to the Oettingen-Wallerstein collection.<br />
In 1980 Bavaria acquired that library; the manuscript is now Universitätsbibliothek Augsburg, Cod. II.1.2° 109.<br />
<br />
I can't find any information about who created it...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[I don't think this Manuscript has been discussed You are not allowed to view links. <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=login">Login</a> to view.<br />
<br />
It's Augsburg, early 15th Century herbal and bestiary. .. I have looked at my own archive and Google and it hasn't turned up... It was owned by a prominent Artz/apothecary family whose work later appeared in a Hartlieb..<br />
<br />
c. 1403–1409: Produced in southern Germany on paper; some later additions use paper dated 1428–1436.<br />
1407: A note records a visit by Anzinus, son of Jörg Tömlinger, a Munich apothecary, placing the manuscript in a Munich pharmaceutical milieu.<br />
Contains extensive medical, pharmaceutical and herbal material, including more than 200 plant images, followed by an illustrated bestiary of about 73 animal species.<br />
By the 15th century it belonged to the Benedictine abbey of St Mang at Füssen, confirmed by an ownership inscription.<br />
After the abbey was secularised in 1803, its library passed to the Oettingen-Wallerstein collection.<br />
In 1980 Bavaria acquired that library; the manuscript is now Universitätsbibliothek Augsburg, Cod. II.1.2° 109.<br />
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			<title><![CDATA[The Voynich Manuscript’s positional entropy collapse]]></title>
			<link>https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6068.html</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2026 22:08:36 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><![CDATA[<a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=profile&uid=24">Torsten</a>]]></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6068.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[Rod Kinnison published a You are not allowed to view links. <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=login">Login</a> to view. at Cryptologia: "The Voynich Manuscript’s positional entropy collapse: comparative evidence from languages and ciphers"<br />
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<blockquote class="mycode_quote"><cite>Quote:</cite>The Voynich Manuscript exhibits unusually low conditional character entropy and rigid positional constraints that have resisted explanation within linguistic frameworks for more than a century. In this study, I apply a leakage-free, folio-segmented, character-level analysis to the Voynich Manuscript and to a set of natural-language, constructed-language, and cipher control corpora. The analysis measures bigram and trigram bits per character, the marginal gain from higher-order context (ΔBPC), positional cross-entropy within words, and local lexical overlap under minimal edit distance. All experiments employ strict recto–verso train–test separation, transcription-layer isolation, and identical preprocessing across corpora. The results show that Voynichese exhibits a pronounced collapse of medial positional entropy and a consistently small ΔBPC. These properties persist across manuscript sections and transcription layers and are not reproduced by natural or constructed languages under identical conditions. Applying the same analysis to a verbose substitution cipher derived from a Latin source text demonstrates that this cipher reproduces the Voynich statistical profile with high fidelity. Shuffle controls confirm that this profile is destroyed when internal adjacency is randomized, indicating structured generation rather than sampling artifacts.</blockquote>
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[Rod Kinnison published a You are not allowed to view links. <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=login">Login</a> to view. at Cryptologia: "The Voynich Manuscript’s positional entropy collapse: comparative evidence from languages and ciphers"<br />
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You are not allowed to view links. <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="https://www.voynich.ninja/member.php?action=login">Login</a> to view.<br />
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<blockquote class="mycode_quote"><cite>Quote:</cite>The Voynich Manuscript exhibits unusually low conditional character entropy and rigid positional constraints that have resisted explanation within linguistic frameworks for more than a century. In this study, I apply a leakage-free, folio-segmented, character-level analysis to the Voynich Manuscript and to a set of natural-language, constructed-language, and cipher control corpora. The analysis measures bigram and trigram bits per character, the marginal gain from higher-order context (ΔBPC), positional cross-entropy within words, and local lexical overlap under minimal edit distance. All experiments employ strict recto–verso train–test separation, transcription-layer isolation, and identical preprocessing across corpora. The results show that Voynichese exhibits a pronounced collapse of medial positional entropy and a consistently small ΔBPC. These properties persist across manuscript sections and transcription layers and are not reproduced by natural or constructed languages under identical conditions. Applying the same analysis to a verbose substitution cipher derived from a Latin source text demonstrates that this cipher reproduces the Voynich statistical profile with high fidelity. Shuffle controls confirm that this profile is destroyed when internal adjacency is randomized, indicating structured generation rather than sampling artifacts.</blockquote>
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