<![CDATA[The Voynich Ninja - Voynich Talk]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/ Sun, 03 May 2026 09:36:14 +0000 MyBB <![CDATA[Using AI to do research - Specifically online searching]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5699.html Thu, 30 Apr 2026 11:09:10 +0000 Mark Knowles]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5699.html <![CDATA[secretary hand and similarities with voynichese text]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5681.html Tue, 28 Apr 2026 03:01:42 +0000 dejiko]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5681.html
.png   secretary-hand-example-17th-century-1925396782.png (Size: 1.13 MB / Downloads: 68) ]]>
.png   secretary-hand-example-17th-century-1925396782.png (Size: 1.13 MB / Downloads: 68) ]]> <![CDATA[Discovery hash]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5671.html Fri, 24 Apr 2026 19:19:58 +0000 magnesium]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5671.html
Discovery 1

MD5 hash: accd21d66d530b1dd0879ee0669ccb2e

SHA1 hash: 681aa6c1ec66a38bea8f40af8283a2004d9e0ed9

Discovery 2

MD5 hash: 9cf6e942c8bcd6aacb5afd6e8df0421e

SHA1 hash: 08abfc44de0f0ffdafcdde92d433108775b4a24c

Discovery 3

MD5 hash: 9ed973b2c39d21a94957b64454b48b4a

SHA1 hash: c914da315b49aa245099af37fbd7a98735f9176a

These are the three key findings of a paper I am preparing for the Voynich 2026 conference. Over-the-top though it may seem, I am taking this step to establish priority in a public setting.]]>
Discovery 1

MD5 hash: accd21d66d530b1dd0879ee0669ccb2e

SHA1 hash: 681aa6c1ec66a38bea8f40af8283a2004d9e0ed9

Discovery 2

MD5 hash: 9cf6e942c8bcd6aacb5afd6e8df0421e

SHA1 hash: 08abfc44de0f0ffdafcdde92d433108775b4a24c

Discovery 3

MD5 hash: 9ed973b2c39d21a94957b64454b48b4a

SHA1 hash: c914da315b49aa245099af37fbd7a98735f9176a

These are the three key findings of a paper I am preparing for the Voynich 2026 conference. Over-the-top though it may seem, I am taking this step to establish priority in a public setting.]]> <![CDATA[How Many Common, Unique Letters Do *You* Think There Are?]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5391.html Sat, 21 Feb 2026 13:12:04 +0000 rikforto]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5391.html
Three things:

  1. I know you don't know. I don't know. None of us know. But if you had to put down one number, not a range, what would it be?
  2. The threshold for "common" is up to you.
  3. Unique means they aren't variants of each other. I think it's pretty common to take n to be a final form of i, and so that would be one letter, not two. Ligatures don't count as a new letter, either.

Feel invited to also expand your answer into a range, explain your cutoff, list your alphabet, and generally explain yourself. I'm curious about all that too!

(If you're wondering my motivations, I was working on something and I found myself asserting that most of us think there are fewer than a certain number of letters. I wondered if that impression was, you know, true?)]]>
Three things:

  1. I know you don't know. I don't know. None of us know. But if you had to put down one number, not a range, what would it be?
  2. The threshold for "common" is up to you.
  3. Unique means they aren't variants of each other. I think it's pretty common to take n to be a final form of i, and so that would be one letter, not two. Ligatures don't count as a new letter, either.

Feel invited to also expand your answer into a range, explain your cutoff, list your alphabet, and generally explain yourself. I'm curious about all that too!

(If you're wondering my motivations, I was working on something and I found myself asserting that most of us think there are fewer than a certain number of letters. I wondered if that impression was, you know, true?)]]> <![CDATA[New Phonetic-Pedagogical Theory: MS 408 as a Parental Survival Guide]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5387.html Fri, 20 Feb 2026 08:15:16 +0000 Rodrigo]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5387.html I’ve been studying the manuscript from a human perspective. My theory is that this isn't a complex military code, but a phonetic guide for oral transmission from parents to children.
Key points of my hypothesis:
  • The "8" symbol: I believe it represents a polarity marker (YES/NO), used as a quick visual cue for a child's behavior or safety.
  • Repetitions: These are not errors. They represent the musical rhythm of a voice (like a lullaby or a mantra) to help the child memorize survival advice.
  • Initial glyphs: They mark the beginning of a "lesson" or a song.
The manuscript is a tool to preserve a family’s voice and knowledge. I’d love to know if anyone else has looked at the "8" as a simple binary instruction for phonetic teaching.
Best regards!]]> I’ve been studying the manuscript from a human perspective. My theory is that this isn't a complex military code, but a phonetic guide for oral transmission from parents to children.
Key points of my hypothesis:
  • The "8" symbol: I believe it represents a polarity marker (YES/NO), used as a quick visual cue for a child's behavior or safety.
  • Repetitions: These are not errors. They represent the musical rhythm of a voice (like a lullaby or a mantra) to help the child memorize survival advice.
  • Initial glyphs: They mark the beginning of a "lesson" or a song.
The manuscript is a tool to preserve a family’s voice and knowledge. I’d love to know if anyone else has looked at the "8" as a simple binary instruction for phonetic teaching.
Best regards!]]> <![CDATA[[split] Volvelles or Disks]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5366.html Sat, 14 Feb 2026 13:36:18 +0000 AliciaNelPresente]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5366.html
I wanted to open a discussion on a specific possibility that seems to be gaining traction with the recent studies coming out.We have all seen the discussion around Greshko's "Naibbe Cipher" and how it generates text that statistically resembles the Voynich. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Then, Pincar’s model identifies a very specific dependency in the text. Essentially, he demonstrates that the ciphertext depends not just on the current symbol, but on the previous one as well meaning the system has "memory" or context. And let's be clear, he himself highlights the following in his article: “This model identifies the structure, but not the content. We cannot determine: the identity of the source language, the semantic meaning of any word, or whether the manuscript contains meaningful information.” You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

If we start from that basis, that there is a mechanical dependency between the previous state and the current one, could we be looking at the text result of a three part volvelle or cipher disk?

A device with concentric rings (Outer, Middle, Inner) would naturally force the rigid Prefix + Root + Suffix word structure that we see throughout the manuscript. Something like this: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

I am curious to hear your thoughts. At first glance, what jars you about this idea? Does a mechanical "wheel" explanation fail to account for any specific linguistic features you've noticed?

Alicia]]>
I wanted to open a discussion on a specific possibility that seems to be gaining traction with the recent studies coming out.We have all seen the discussion around Greshko's "Naibbe Cipher" and how it generates text that statistically resembles the Voynich. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Then, Pincar’s model identifies a very specific dependency in the text. Essentially, he demonstrates that the ciphertext depends not just on the current symbol, but on the previous one as well meaning the system has "memory" or context. And let's be clear, he himself highlights the following in his article: “This model identifies the structure, but not the content. We cannot determine: the identity of the source language, the semantic meaning of any word, or whether the manuscript contains meaningful information.” You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

If we start from that basis, that there is a mechanical dependency between the previous state and the current one, could we be looking at the text result of a three part volvelle or cipher disk?

A device with concentric rings (Outer, Middle, Inner) would naturally force the rigid Prefix + Root + Suffix word structure that we see throughout the manuscript. Something like this: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

I am curious to hear your thoughts. At first glance, what jars you about this idea? Does a mechanical "wheel" explanation fail to account for any specific linguistic features you've noticed?

Alicia]]> <![CDATA[Proposal for "EVA phonetics based theory jar" in the grand tradition of the swear jar]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5364.html Sat, 14 Feb 2026 00:29:31 +0000 kckluge]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5364.html Register or Login to view. Joshwaful said:

Quote:I think there's a language barrier between us. 
shol" is frequent because it is a Phonetic Homonym
Latin: Sol- (Sol-u-tio)
German: Schal- (Schal-e)
Czech: Sol- (Sol-i)
The Scribe's Brain: He hears the sound /sol/ in his head. Whether he means "Salt" or "Basin," he writes the same phonetic cluster. It's the same as todays doctors.

I hereby propose that every time we're subjected to a theory like this because the creators of EVA thought making Voynichese pronounceable was important Rene should have to put a Euro in the EVA phonetics based theory jar. Every time the jar gets full enough we'll have a pizza party or donate the money to Doctors Without Borders or something...]]> Register or Login to view. Joshwaful said:

Quote:I think there's a language barrier between us. 
shol" is frequent because it is a Phonetic Homonym
Latin: Sol- (Sol-u-tio)
German: Schal- (Schal-e)
Czech: Sol- (Sol-i)
The Scribe's Brain: He hears the sound /sol/ in his head. Whether he means "Salt" or "Basin," he writes the same phonetic cluster. It's the same as todays doctors.

I hereby propose that every time we're subjected to a theory like this because the creators of EVA thought making Voynichese pronounceable was important Rene should have to put a Euro in the EVA phonetics based theory jar. Every time the jar gets full enough we'll have a pizza party or donate the money to Doctors Without Borders or something...]]> <![CDATA[Observations on the Visual and Functional Structure of the Voynich Manuscript]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5340.html Sun, 08 Feb 2026 17:20:29 +0000 emanuele.pegorin]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5340.html
My name is Emanuele Pegorin, and I am an independent researcher with a strong interest in the Voynich Manuscript, particularly in its visual structure and internal logic.

I would like to share some methodological and descriptive observations, without proposing textual “solutions” or decipherments.

1. The manuscript appears to function as a graphic and operational modus operandi of a community of women working in the botanical field, including cultivation, processing, water management, and ritual purification.
2. Images dominate the manuscript and are intentionally enlarged, distorted, and repetitive, suggesting that the communication was designed for a semi-literate or non-literate audience. Written text appears secondary, likely intended for supervisory or intermediary roles.
3. Recurring structural principles are evident, such as centric–radial and centric–convex representations (e.g., foldouts f. 85v–86r), and hierarchical markers, like stars associated with figures and textual sections.
4. In later sections, water basins, hydraulic systems, and drainage channels highlight maintenance and practical management, rather than symbolic or cosmological meaning. The presence of birds nesting or flying in channels signals critical points and operational tasks to be monitored.
5. Jars appear as distinct functional items, each with specific shapes, decorations, and plant references, suggesting that they were intended for different uses or clients, and indicating an organized and diversified production system.

These observations are interpretative and not conclusively provable, but they provide a visual and methodological framework to view the manuscript as a coherent system of work, roles, and ritual practices.

I would be glad to receive any comments, insights, or suggestions on how to refine this image-centered analysis or integrate it with existing Voynich research.

Thank you very much for your attention,
Emanuele Pegorin]]>
My name is Emanuele Pegorin, and I am an independent researcher with a strong interest in the Voynich Manuscript, particularly in its visual structure and internal logic.

I would like to share some methodological and descriptive observations, without proposing textual “solutions” or decipherments.

1. The manuscript appears to function as a graphic and operational modus operandi of a community of women working in the botanical field, including cultivation, processing, water management, and ritual purification.
2. Images dominate the manuscript and are intentionally enlarged, distorted, and repetitive, suggesting that the communication was designed for a semi-literate or non-literate audience. Written text appears secondary, likely intended for supervisory or intermediary roles.
3. Recurring structural principles are evident, such as centric–radial and centric–convex representations (e.g., foldouts f. 85v–86r), and hierarchical markers, like stars associated with figures and textual sections.
4. In later sections, water basins, hydraulic systems, and drainage channels highlight maintenance and practical management, rather than symbolic or cosmological meaning. The presence of birds nesting or flying in channels signals critical points and operational tasks to be monitored.
5. Jars appear as distinct functional items, each with specific shapes, decorations, and plant references, suggesting that they were intended for different uses or clients, and indicating an organized and diversified production system.

These observations are interpretative and not conclusively provable, but they provide a visual and methodological framework to view the manuscript as a coherent system of work, roles, and ritual practices.

I would be glad to receive any comments, insights, or suggestions on how to refine this image-centered analysis or integrate it with existing Voynich research.

Thank you very much for your attention,
Emanuele Pegorin]]> <![CDATA[Another mention of "pox" in a 15th century manuscript]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5306.html Tue, 27 Jan 2026 19:20:21 +0000 JustAnotherTheory]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5306.html
I intend to add to this list, albeit only with the word "pox", describing the animal in question.

The manuscript is Der Renner from Hugo von Trimberg. This manuscript is peculiar because it contains 91 pen sketches, and instructions for the execution of these sketches can be found in the lower margins of the pages on which they appear. Here is the folio in question, f167r:


.png   qsdqsz.png (Size: 178.17 KB / Downloads: 94)

On the bottom it says:


.png   qsdqsdqsdsz.png (Size: 73.28 KB / Downloads: 93)

So yeah, there it is. Another mention of "pox". 

EDIT: here is the manuscript: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.]]>
I intend to add to this list, albeit only with the word "pox", describing the animal in question.

The manuscript is Der Renner from Hugo von Trimberg. This manuscript is peculiar because it contains 91 pen sketches, and instructions for the execution of these sketches can be found in the lower margins of the pages on which they appear. Here is the folio in question, f167r:


.png   qsdqsz.png (Size: 178.17 KB / Downloads: 94)

On the bottom it says:


.png   qsdqsdqsdsz.png (Size: 73.28 KB / Downloads: 93)

So yeah, there it is. Another mention of "pox". 

EDIT: here is the manuscript: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.]]> <![CDATA[A name to attach to the origins of the manuscript]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5302.html Mon, 26 Jan 2026 19:29:12 +0000 Mark Knowles]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5302.html
I wonder though how one can say that with such confidence.

It seems unlikely to me that the author of the Voynich was an average European peasant. 90% of people then were illiterate. The author(s) of the Voynich seem to be someone who was very educated given the content of the manuscript and it is often argued must have been quite wealthy to have afforded the vellum and inks needed for the manuscript as well as available time to work on it. If the manuscript is written in cipher as most Voynich researchers have said they believe in a survey then the author could well have been particularly well educated and able to produce such a difficult cipher to crack. So, as with the works of Giovanni Fontana or Trithemius why should we assume the author was an ordinary unknown peasant?

There are many records of named individuals from 15th century Italy and other parts of Europe, so to assume that there would no records of the author(s) seems unwise.]]>
I wonder though how one can say that with such confidence.

It seems unlikely to me that the author of the Voynich was an average European peasant. 90% of people then were illiterate. The author(s) of the Voynich seem to be someone who was very educated given the content of the manuscript and it is often argued must have been quite wealthy to have afforded the vellum and inks needed for the manuscript as well as available time to work on it. If the manuscript is written in cipher as most Voynich researchers have said they believe in a survey then the author could well have been particularly well educated and able to produce such a difficult cipher to crack. So, as with the works of Giovanni Fontana or Trithemius why should we assume the author was an ordinary unknown peasant?

There are many records of named individuals from 15th century Italy and other parts of Europe, so to assume that there would no records of the author(s) seems unwise.]]> <![CDATA[Curated list of lists / collections]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5301.html Mon, 26 Jan 2026 13:59:30 +0000 Koen G]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5301.html You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.


One example that just came to mind is the collection of crossbowmen Sagittarii  - Marco, were you hosting that somewhere?]]> You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.


One example that just came to mind is the collection of crossbowmen Sagittarii  - Marco, were you hosting that somewhere?]]> <![CDATA[Why the month names aren't Voynichese?]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5299.html Mon, 26 Jan 2026 03:23:35 +0000 Zauriek]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5299.html Why the author didn't write the month names in voynichese?
a)Was trying to be scientific: To quote exactly the source material.
  1) He know the language.
  2) He didn't know the language.

b)Was obliged to write it down. (Why and how?)
  1) He know the language.
  2) He didn't know the language.

c)Wrote them latter as reference.
  1) The author, for some reason.
  2) A different person, for some reason. [Like a latter owner.]
d)???

---
a) Then, why it is the only instance? For example, when naming plants one would expect the same as with the months.
b) No idea...
---
I'm going with [c2]:

1. At first glance, the tint looks more persistent than the fading text of the manuscript:

.png   name_vs_fading.png (Size: 134.35 KB / Downloads: 133)

2. Checking out the logic of the title placement of the potion section, i think the author or authors always leave enough space to put the titles of the drawings. While the placement of the month names look squeezed and clumsy:

.png   clumsy_placement_sample.png (Size: 144.5 KB / Downloads: 135)
Maybe even hinting that the drawings were made without the intention of having titles at all.

Implications of this idea for [c2]:
a) The individual who wrote the names may not have anything to do with voyniches.
b) The months could have been written without a source in mind.
c) The voiniches equivalent may be there somewhere in the page or they are totally absent (but then, why...)]]> Why the author didn't write the month names in voynichese?
a)Was trying to be scientific: To quote exactly the source material.
  1) He know the language.
  2) He didn't know the language.

b)Was obliged to write it down. (Why and how?)
  1) He know the language.
  2) He didn't know the language.

c)Wrote them latter as reference.
  1) The author, for some reason.
  2) A different person, for some reason. [Like a latter owner.]
d)???

---
a) Then, why it is the only instance? For example, when naming plants one would expect the same as with the months.
b) No idea...
---
I'm going with [c2]:

1. At first glance, the tint looks more persistent than the fading text of the manuscript:

.png   name_vs_fading.png (Size: 134.35 KB / Downloads: 133)

2. Checking out the logic of the title placement of the potion section, i think the author or authors always leave enough space to put the titles of the drawings. While the placement of the month names look squeezed and clumsy:

.png   clumsy_placement_sample.png (Size: 144.5 KB / Downloads: 135)
Maybe even hinting that the drawings were made without the intention of having titles at all.

Implications of this idea for [c2]:
a) The individual who wrote the names may not have anything to do with voyniches.
b) The months could have been written without a source in mind.
c) The voiniches equivalent may be there somewhere in the page or they are totally absent (but then, why...)]]> <![CDATA[Is the Voynich a renaissance work?]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5255.html Sun, 18 Jan 2026 21:48:56 +0000 Mark Knowles]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5255.html
I am inclined given my theories to view the Voynich manuscript as a product of the Italian renaissance more than a medieval work, although one clearly with obvious medieval influences. I daresay others have a different perspective. Nevertheless I would be curious as to other perspectives.]]>
I am inclined given my theories to view the Voynich manuscript as a product of the Italian renaissance more than a medieval work, although one clearly with obvious medieval influences. I daresay others have a different perspective. Nevertheless I would be curious as to other perspectives.]]> <![CDATA[A random rant about the VMS]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5247.html Fri, 16 Jan 2026 17:31:38 +0000 JustAnotherTheory]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5247.html
After looking at (at least) a few hundred different manuscripts from Switzerland, Tirol, South Germany, Italy and even the Netherlands, from the period 1350-1470, I am:
  • Unable to find a single illustration/illumination style that matches that of the VMS illuminator,
  • Unable to find a single handwriting style that matches the calligraphy of the VMS scribe,
  • Unable to find a single drawing that is reminiscent of the VMS,
  • Unable to find a single compelling match for any of the glyphs in the VMS,
  • Unable to find a single compelling explanation for the non-existent plants, vessels and charts in the VMS.

However, the scribe(s) and illuminator(s) of the VMS must have practiced their art or at least had many years of experience is writing and drawing. So where is the mark of their art throughout an entire century? There seems to be none. Literally none of the contemporary material matches anything that is on the VMS. In short, this manuscript should not exist.

Just ranting/awing at this masterpiece, that's all.]]>
After looking at (at least) a few hundred different manuscripts from Switzerland, Tirol, South Germany, Italy and even the Netherlands, from the period 1350-1470, I am:
  • Unable to find a single illustration/illumination style that matches that of the VMS illuminator,
  • Unable to find a single handwriting style that matches the calligraphy of the VMS scribe,
  • Unable to find a single drawing that is reminiscent of the VMS,
  • Unable to find a single compelling match for any of the glyphs in the VMS,
  • Unable to find a single compelling explanation for the non-existent plants, vessels and charts in the VMS.

However, the scribe(s) and illuminator(s) of the VMS must have practiced their art or at least had many years of experience is writing and drawing. So where is the mark of their art throughout an entire century? There seems to be none. Literally none of the contemporary material matches anything that is on the VMS. In short, this manuscript should not exist.

Just ranting/awing at this masterpiece, that's all.]]> <![CDATA[Trip to Egypt]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5234.html Tue, 13 Jan 2026 22:50:32 +0000 DONJCH]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5234.html
Recently went to Egypt and saw a few things that I found interesting in relation to the VMS.
Special subject, Stars and the Zodiac/calendar folios  but also in relation to text and Rosettes.

I have yet to transfer pics from my wife's IPad but first need to ask, where to post?
Individual forums or should I just lump it all together? There are not masses of material.
I wonder what previous work has been done on this subject!

Before the trip I spent some months on a deep dive into Ancient Egypt and the ancient world in general.
It seems there is nothing new under the sun.

But I learned to hate AI slop and lament that it has shown its face even here! Sick
That and ancient aliens  Angry

ANYway. I hope there may be some interest in this. Any guidance would be appreciated!]]>
Recently went to Egypt and saw a few things that I found interesting in relation to the VMS.
Special subject, Stars and the Zodiac/calendar folios  but also in relation to text and Rosettes.

I have yet to transfer pics from my wife's IPad but first need to ask, where to post?
Individual forums or should I just lump it all together? There are not masses of material.
I wonder what previous work has been done on this subject!

Before the trip I spent some months on a deep dive into Ancient Egypt and the ancient world in general.
It seems there is nothing new under the sun.

But I learned to hate AI slop and lament that it has shown its face even here! Sick
That and ancient aliens  Angry

ANYway. I hope there may be some interest in this. Any guidance would be appreciated!]]>