https://www.voynich.ninja/ Thu, 17 Sep 2026 16:36:56 +0000 MyBB https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6089.html Thu, 17 Sep 2026 13:37:33 +0000 Quentin Da Silva]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6089.html
After spending some time comparing the Voynich Manuscript with other forms of fifteenth-century visual and technical material, I have been wondering whether we may sometimes be approaching the Rosettes page from the wrong direction.

This is only a working hypothesis, and I am not suggesting any specific identification.

What if the Rosettes page is not primarily a geographical map at all?

What if it represents a designed system, in which the circles, pathways, channels and structures show relationships between different components rather than actual places?

One thing that led me to consider this was my recent reading of Filarete.

I am not suggesting that Filarete influenced the Voynich Manuscript, especially since his work is later.

What interests me is the broader way in which drawings could function as vehicles for organised knowledge.

In Filarete, a drawing is not necessarily just an image of something.

It can express measurements, relationships, circulation, water systems, gardens, buildings and the internal logic of a designed whole.

This made me look again at the Rosettes page.

Instead of asking “what place does this represent?”, perhaps another useful question would be “what kind of system is being represented here?”

The nine major circular areas could potentially function as modules or conceptual zones.

The connecting elements might represent circulation, transmission or relationships between them rather than roads in a literal landscape.

The repeated structures, pipes, walls, openings and radial forms might therefore be more important for their function within the composition than for what they visually resemble.

I think this idea could be tested without assuming that it is correct.

For example, we could ask whether similar graphic elements consistently perform similar functions across the page.

We could examine whether the connections between the nine areas follow a deliberate structural logic.

We could also compare the page with contemporary technical, architectural, hydraulic or cosmological diagrams, not simply in terms of visual resemblance, but in terms of how information is organised.

For me, the important distinction would be between three questions.

What do the individual forms look like?
How do they behave within the diagram?
What kind of information could the entire structure be designed to communicate?

I would be very interested to know whether this kind of interpretation has already been discussed in detail here.

I would also be interested in examples of other fifteenth-century diagrams in which apparently architectural or geographical forms are actually being used to represent a more abstract system.

At this stage, I am treating this only as a possible way of looking at the page, not as an identification.

I would be very interested to hear your thoughts.

Visual comparison only. I am not suggesting a direct connection or influence between Filarete and the Voynich Manuscript.

MS 408, fol.85v.

BNCF, MS Palatino E.B.15.7, fol. 18r.

  voynich_86r_forum_display.jpg (Size: 343.7 KB / Downloads: 55)

  filarete_sforzinda_display.jpg (Size: 212.45 KB / Downloads: 55) ]]>
After spending some time comparing the Voynich Manuscript with other forms of fifteenth-century visual and technical material, I have been wondering whether we may sometimes be approaching the Rosettes page from the wrong direction.

This is only a working hypothesis, and I am not suggesting any specific identification.

What if the Rosettes page is not primarily a geographical map at all?

What if it represents a designed system, in which the circles, pathways, channels and structures show relationships between different components rather than actual places?

One thing that led me to consider this was my recent reading of Filarete.

I am not suggesting that Filarete influenced the Voynich Manuscript, especially since his work is later.

What interests me is the broader way in which drawings could function as vehicles for organised knowledge.

In Filarete, a drawing is not necessarily just an image of something.

It can express measurements, relationships, circulation, water systems, gardens, buildings and the internal logic of a designed whole.

This made me look again at the Rosettes page.

Instead of asking “what place does this represent?”, perhaps another useful question would be “what kind of system is being represented here?”

The nine major circular areas could potentially function as modules or conceptual zones.

The connecting elements might represent circulation, transmission or relationships between them rather than roads in a literal landscape.

The repeated structures, pipes, walls, openings and radial forms might therefore be more important for their function within the composition than for what they visually resemble.

I think this idea could be tested without assuming that it is correct.

For example, we could ask whether similar graphic elements consistently perform similar functions across the page.

We could examine whether the connections between the nine areas follow a deliberate structural logic.

We could also compare the page with contemporary technical, architectural, hydraulic or cosmological diagrams, not simply in terms of visual resemblance, but in terms of how information is organised.

For me, the important distinction would be between three questions.

What do the individual forms look like?
How do they behave within the diagram?
What kind of information could the entire structure be designed to communicate?

I would be very interested to know whether this kind of interpretation has already been discussed in detail here.

I would also be interested in examples of other fifteenth-century diagrams in which apparently architectural or geographical forms are actually being used to represent a more abstract system.

At this stage, I am treating this only as a possible way of looking at the page, not as an identification.

I would be very interested to hear your thoughts.

Visual comparison only. I am not suggesting a direct connection or influence between Filarete and the Voynich Manuscript.

MS 408, fol.85v.

BNCF, MS Palatino E.B.15.7, fol. 18r.

  voynich_86r_forum_display.jpg (Size: 343.7 KB / Downloads: 55)

  filarete_sforzinda_display.jpg (Size: 212.45 KB / Downloads: 55) ]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6082.html Wed, 16 Sep 2026 15:19:00 +0000 Quentin Da Silva]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6082.html
I am not presenting this as a firm reading, as I am doing this primarily for the enjoyment of the research. However, after zooming in on this area, I think I can make out something resembling “Paris Kar”, or possibly “Par is Kar.”

In my view, this could suggest two interesting possibilities, the second of which particularly intrigues me:

“Paris Kar”, with Kar possibly representing an abbreviation of Karolus / Charles; or

“Par is carus”, if interpreted as Latin, which could perhaps be understood along the lines of “the equal/peer is dear or precious.”

I want to stress that I am treating these only as possible readings rather than definite identifications.

I have attached cropped and enhanced screenshots below.

I would be very interested to hear your thoughts and am happy to discuss this further.

Thanks for reading!

MS 408, fol. 85v.

  Capture d'écran 2026-09-16 171642.png (Size: 535.89 KB / Downloads: 105)

  Capture d'écran 2026-09-16 171724.png (Size: 62.34 KB / Downloads: 104) ]]>
I am not presenting this as a firm reading, as I am doing this primarily for the enjoyment of the research. However, after zooming in on this area, I think I can make out something resembling “Paris Kar”, or possibly “Par is Kar.”

In my view, this could suggest two interesting possibilities, the second of which particularly intrigues me:

“Paris Kar”, with Kar possibly representing an abbreviation of Karolus / Charles; or

“Par is carus”, if interpreted as Latin, which could perhaps be understood along the lines of “the equal/peer is dear or precious.”

I want to stress that I am treating these only as possible readings rather than definite identifications.

I have attached cropped and enhanced screenshots below.

I would be very interested to hear your thoughts and am happy to discuss this further.

Thanks for reading!

MS 408, fol. 85v.

  Capture d'écran 2026-09-16 171642.png (Size: 535.89 KB / Downloads: 105)

  Capture d'écran 2026-09-16 171724.png (Size: 62.34 KB / Downloads: 104) ]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6075.html Fri, 11 Sep 2026 08:14:50 +0000 JustAnotherTheory]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6075.html
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 

in which I discovered a possible connection between the VMS nymphs and 15th century Italian illustrated Dante manuscripts.

I will show some concrete examples below. All of the pictures below are from 14th and 15th century Dante manuscripts.


  01.png (Size: 438.08 KB / Downloads: 175)


  02.png (Size: 475.99 KB / Downloads: 174)


  03.png (Size: 555.29 KB / Downloads: 174)


  04.png (Size: 595.28 KB / Downloads: 174)


  05.png (Size: 371.05 KB / Downloads: 174)


  06.png (Size: 258.77 KB / Downloads: 175)

Could the VMS nymphs section be inspired by Dante manuscript(s)? Could it somehow be a representation of a female version of Dante's hell?]]>
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 

in which I discovered a possible connection between the VMS nymphs and 15th century Italian illustrated Dante manuscripts.

I will show some concrete examples below. All of the pictures below are from 14th and 15th century Dante manuscripts.


  01.png (Size: 438.08 KB / Downloads: 175)


  02.png (Size: 475.99 KB / Downloads: 174)


  03.png (Size: 555.29 KB / Downloads: 174)


  04.png (Size: 595.28 KB / Downloads: 174)


  05.png (Size: 371.05 KB / Downloads: 174)


  06.png (Size: 258.77 KB / Downloads: 175)

Could the VMS nymphs section be inspired by Dante manuscript(s)? Could it somehow be a representation of a female version of Dante's hell?]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6045.html Thu, 27 Aug 2026 14:05:19 +0000 JustAnotherTheory]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6045.html
This herbal is written in Italian and has the peculiar feature of having illustrations of castles and towers with Ghibelline (swallowtail) merlons. In fact, there seem to be a lot of them:


  image (12).png (Size: 569.38 KB / Downloads: 296)


  image (6).png (Size: 349.45 KB / Downloads: 294)


  image (4).png (Size: 367.92 KB / Downloads: 294)


  image (3).png (Size: 277.97 KB / Downloads: 293)


  image (1).png (Size: 220.39 KB / Downloads: 293)


  image (2).png (Size: 336.33 KB / Downloads: 293)

There even seems to be several castles with Ghibelline wall and towers all around (note the first picture below, in which there appear to be bathing people inside):


  image (7).png (Size: 1.26 MB / Downloads: 295)


  image (9).png (Size: 498.93 KB / Downloads: 293)

Can someone fluent in Italian check which castles these might represent? That could be a clue to the Rosettes section castles of the VMS!

But there are other scenes that might be related to bathing, too:


  image (8).png (Size: 200.85 KB / Downloads: 291)


  image (11).png (Size: 208.39 KB / Downloads: 293)

Hoow about this weird animal, kind of reminds me of the VMS "armadillo/pangolin":


  image (13).png (Size: 181.07 KB / Downloads: 290)

Some herb roots are also voynich-y:


  image (10).png (Size: 298.79 KB / Downloads: 290)


  image (14).png (Size: 437.67 KB / Downloads: 290)

You can find the MS here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Could this MS be relevant to the Voynich manuscript in some way?]]>
This herbal is written in Italian and has the peculiar feature of having illustrations of castles and towers with Ghibelline (swallowtail) merlons. In fact, there seem to be a lot of them:


  image (12).png (Size: 569.38 KB / Downloads: 296)


  image (6).png (Size: 349.45 KB / Downloads: 294)


  image (4).png (Size: 367.92 KB / Downloads: 294)


  image (3).png (Size: 277.97 KB / Downloads: 293)


  image (1).png (Size: 220.39 KB / Downloads: 293)


  image (2).png (Size: 336.33 KB / Downloads: 293)

There even seems to be several castles with Ghibelline wall and towers all around (note the first picture below, in which there appear to be bathing people inside):


  image (7).png (Size: 1.26 MB / Downloads: 295)


  image (9).png (Size: 498.93 KB / Downloads: 293)

Can someone fluent in Italian check which castles these might represent? That could be a clue to the Rosettes section castles of the VMS!

But there are other scenes that might be related to bathing, too:


  image (8).png (Size: 200.85 KB / Downloads: 291)


  image (11).png (Size: 208.39 KB / Downloads: 293)

Hoow about this weird animal, kind of reminds me of the VMS "armadillo/pangolin":


  image (13).png (Size: 181.07 KB / Downloads: 290)

Some herb roots are also voynich-y:


  image (10).png (Size: 298.79 KB / Downloads: 290)


  image (14).png (Size: 437.67 KB / Downloads: 290)

You can find the MS here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Could this MS be relevant to the Voynich manuscript in some way?]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6030.html Tue, 18 Aug 2026 22:02:05 +0000 ololololo]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6030.html   Снимок экрана 2026-08-19 005047_20260819005422.png (Size: 1.07 MB / Downloads: 218)
Rosette 1 perfectly matches diagram f67r1. They have the same number of rays = 12.

Rosette has 3 14 rays in total. The You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. also has two different types of rays, but there are only 28 of them, whereas on the Rosetta 2 there are only half. In terms of shape, it is very similar to the f70r2. There’s even a sun in the center, but here’s the problem — this rosette is two rays short of 16; that’s exactly how many rays the f70r2 has

I couldn’t figure out how many rays Rosetta 2 has. If it has 8, then it could correspond to f68v2 and the same f70r2 (it’s similar in shape). If it has 9, then there’s a candidate f70r1 (but there’s no similarity in shape) and f68v3 (9 spirals, but that’s not it at all).

In total, possible matches: Rosette 1 - f67r1, Rosette 2 - f68v2, Rosette 3 - f70r2.

...And that’s it. It’s not enough to call Rosetta’s scheme a cosmological one.


What do you think?]]>   Снимок экрана 2026-08-19 005047_20260819005422.png (Size: 1.07 MB / Downloads: 218)
Rosette 1 perfectly matches diagram f67r1. They have the same number of rays = 12.

Rosette has 3 14 rays in total. The You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. also has two different types of rays, but there are only 28 of them, whereas on the Rosetta 2 there are only half. In terms of shape, it is very similar to the f70r2. There’s even a sun in the center, but here’s the problem — this rosette is two rays short of 16; that’s exactly how many rays the f70r2 has

I couldn’t figure out how many rays Rosetta 2 has. If it has 8, then it could correspond to f68v2 and the same f70r2 (it’s similar in shape). If it has 9, then there’s a candidate f70r1 (but there’s no similarity in shape) and f68v3 (9 spirals, but that’s not it at all).

In total, possible matches: Rosette 1 - f67r1, Rosette 2 - f68v2, Rosette 3 - f70r2.

...And that’s it. It’s not enough to call Rosetta’s scheme a cosmological one.


What do you think?]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6024.html Mon, 17 Aug 2026 09:38:03 +0000 ololololo]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6024.html
  1.png (Size: 468.04 KB / Downloads: 294)
f19r-f32v

  2.png (Size: 339.02 KB / Downloads: 293)
f9v-f23r

  3.png (Size: 592.76 KB / Downloads: 296)
f51v-f54v-f94r

  4.png (Size: 472.7 KB / Downloads: 293)
f17r-f90v2
(there was an image here)
f17v-f37r-f96v

  6.png (Size: 321.27 KB / Downloads: 293)
f18r-f87r

  7.png (Size: 1.24 MB / Downloads: 296)
f3v-f24r-f96r

Below, if anything, is my clumsy attempt to depict the general features of the plants mentioned.
As for Herbal B, you can identify not just similarities, but entire families of similar plants. More on this in the next post.]]>
  1.png (Size: 468.04 KB / Downloads: 294)
f19r-f32v

  2.png (Size: 339.02 KB / Downloads: 293)
f9v-f23r

  3.png (Size: 592.76 KB / Downloads: 296)
f51v-f54v-f94r

  4.png (Size: 472.7 KB / Downloads: 293)
f17r-f90v2
(there was an image here)
f17v-f37r-f96v

  6.png (Size: 321.27 KB / Downloads: 293)
f18r-f87r

  7.png (Size: 1.24 MB / Downloads: 296)
f3v-f24r-f96r

Below, if anything, is my clumsy attempt to depict the general features of the plants mentioned.
As for Herbal B, you can identify not just similarities, but entire families of similar plants. More on this in the next post.]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6019.html Sat, 15 Aug 2026 10:49:15 +0000 Rafal]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6019.html Register or Login to view. folio.

I altered the picture with graphic editor changing stuff like hue, contrast etc. :

  pic1.jpg (Size: 68.74 KB / Downloads: 237)

For me it seems a bit like letters " k o ń r "
"Koń" is "horse" in Polish but I wouldn't go that far 

Do you see something too or is it just some random noise for you?]]> Register or Login to view. folio.

I altered the picture with graphic editor changing stuff like hue, contrast etc. :

  pic1.jpg (Size: 68.74 KB / Downloads: 237)

For me it seems a bit like letters " k o ń r "
"Koń" is "horse" in Polish but I wouldn't go that far 

Do you see something too or is it just some random noise for you?]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6008.html Sat, 08 Aug 2026 13:06:53 +0000 ololololo]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-6008.html
  Снимок экрана 2026-08-08 160535.jpg (Size: 96.96 KB / Downloads: 194)
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
What is this, and how might it be related to f57v?]]>
  Снимок экрана 2026-08-08 160535.jpg (Size: 96.96 KB / Downloads: 194)
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
What is this, and how might it be related to f57v?]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5997.html Mon, 03 Aug 2026 04:57:54 +0000 JustAnotherTheory]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5997.html Register or Login to view..

The imagery in this MS recalls a lot that of the VMS. Perhaps wew can find some clues as to the identity of some plants in the VMS from this.


  001.png (Size: 425.62 KB / Downloads: 110)


  002.png (Size: 240.97 KB / Downloads: 108)


  003.png (Size: 214.72 KB / Downloads: 108)


  004.png (Size: 200.91 KB / Downloads: 109)


  005.png (Size: 160.22 KB / Downloads: 110)


  006.png (Size: 118.2 KB / Downloads: 107)

Could the VMS be inspired from a now lost Provencal/Occitan herbal source?]]> Register or Login to view..

The imagery in this MS recalls a lot that of the VMS. Perhaps wew can find some clues as to the identity of some plants in the VMS from this.


  001.png (Size: 425.62 KB / Downloads: 110)


  002.png (Size: 240.97 KB / Downloads: 108)


  003.png (Size: 214.72 KB / Downloads: 108)


  004.png (Size: 200.91 KB / Downloads: 109)


  005.png (Size: 160.22 KB / Downloads: 110)


  006.png (Size: 118.2 KB / Downloads: 107)

Could the VMS be inspired from a now lost Provencal/Occitan herbal source?]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5984.html Fri, 31 Jul 2026 15:24:22 +0000 ololololo]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5984.html After looking at them again, I noticed the following: the four Rosettes in the corners of the quadrifolium differ from all the others (including the island) in that they most closely resemble geographical features (a hill on the top left, a city on the top right, a lake on the bottom left, and a second city or temple on the bottom right).
And I thought the following:
"There was an wrong image"
1 - Mount Sinai
2 - Jerusalem
4 - I've always thought that the area above the blue cross was farmland. This may be a depiction of Gosen.
These are the very first associations.

The central Rosettes (by the way, their difference is that they are all symmetrical and "schematic") may have a clear religious meaning. If we consider the central island as a hill (rather than an actual island), it could represent the Heavenly Jerusalem.

What do you think?

---

  Снимок экрана 2026-07-31 181428.jpg (Size: 234.38 KB / Downloads: 148)

  Снимок экрана 2026-07-31 181428.jpg (Size: 177.45 KB / Downloads: 129) ]]> After looking at them again, I noticed the following: the four Rosettes in the corners of the quadrifolium differ from all the others (including the island) in that they most closely resemble geographical features (a hill on the top left, a city on the top right, a lake on the bottom left, and a second city or temple on the bottom right).
And I thought the following:
"There was an wrong image"
1 - Mount Sinai
2 - Jerusalem
4 - I've always thought that the area above the blue cross was farmland. This may be a depiction of Gosen.
These are the very first associations.

The central Rosettes (by the way, their difference is that they are all symmetrical and "schematic") may have a clear religious meaning. If we consider the central island as a hill (rather than an actual island), it could represent the Heavenly Jerusalem.

What do you think?

---

  Снимок экрана 2026-07-31 181428.jpg (Size: 234.38 KB / Downloads: 148)

  Снимок экрана 2026-07-31 181428.jpg (Size: 177.45 KB / Downloads: 129) ]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5968.html Wed, 29 Jul 2026 20:00:54 +0000 eggyk]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5968.html
As part of the ongoing zodiac rating/collection project, approximately 230 depictions of Aries (from ~160 sources) have been logged in order to compare them to the VMS Aries symbols. Exciting or interesting examples are... rather scarce.

There are multiple aspects of the VMS symbols that are simply plain missing in the vast majority of Aries depictions. The horns are almost never curved correctly, the body type is more often short and stubby, the tail is often far too long, and the animal is almost never interested in a tree or plant. 

So.. is the VMS aries depiction simply rare?

The Depiction (eating a tree on a rocky slope)

Many of you may be familiar with this example from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.:


  image_2026-07-27_173151446.png (Size: 125.59 KB / Downloads: 198)

Well, this depiction (of a creature reaching up onto a tree, or reaching higher, rocky ground) is a semi-common Capricorn depiction. Not Aries. Here are a whole bunch of examples i've come across so far:

  VMSariesboth.JPG (Size: 25.28 KB / Downloads: 168)

  capricorns_on_trees.JPG (Size: 93.33 KB / Downloads: 184)

  capricorns_on_rocky_hills.JPG (Size: 63.39 KB / Downloads: 182)

This is perhaps the best evidence that VMS aries is actually inspired by a depiction of capricorn: the depiction of a creature on a rocky slope, trying to reach for a tree or high ground. 

How can it be Capricorn? It's between Pisces and Taurus!

Examples of this happening

So far, I have come across 2 examples that demonstrate instances where this mix-up / mixing of styles happened: 

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
This example (that I just mentioned above) is in the Aries section, but is actually based on capricorn. The goat beard gives this away:

  aries_with_beard.JPG (Size: 9.83 KB / Downloads: 179)

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
This example has aries and capricorn mixed-up: The capricorn is depicted in march, and aries is depicted in december:

  capricorn_aries_mixup.JPG (Size: 20.94 KB / Downloads: 180)

This was not a binding error; these depictions were indeed on the verso of those months.

So interestingly, the two examples with this capricorn depiction displayed in the "aries section" seem to have different reasons for having happened. One is seemingly a mistake, and the other seems to have been a conscious choice to use the typical capricorn depiction for aries.

Similar designs for aries and capricorns within manuscripts

Quite often, the designs of Aries and Capricorn are rather similar within the same manuscript. Even in cases that capricorn is a sea-goat, the mammal-half is often similar to the Aries within that manuscript. Here are a couple of examples, but there are many more: 


  capricorn_aries_comparison.JPG (Size: 55.16 KB / Downloads: 167)

Other attributes that suggest a capricorn inspired design

The horns - Horns on Aries entries are very often curled, twisted and bobbly. Capricorn horns are often smooth (not always), and generally a longer version of the shape found in the VMS. 

The tail - Tails are more often small tufts on the capricorn designs, similar to the VMS. The tails on aries designs is more often far longer. 

The body - Capricorns are generally depicted as relatively slim creatures with longer legs, as opposed to the common fluffy, poofy build found in many Aries. 

Common Capricorn attributes missing in the VMS

The Beard - Capricorns are normally depicted with a little goat beard, which is missing in both depictions found in the VMS. However, this is not a universal feature; there's already an example of a beardless example above in this post. But I looked through quickly and found a few:


  capricorn_beardless.JPG (Size: 24.56 KB / Downloads: 180)

What I'm suggesting

I believe that the design for Aries may have been inspired by a capricorn depiction. This does not necessarily mean that the intended sign IS capricorn, only that the VMS depiction of Aries was inspired by it.  Frankly, the only reason we assume this to be an Aries design is its location between Pisces and Taurus. If we had only these VMS pages in isolation, without Pisces and Taurus, the logical conclusion would not be that they are Aries at all. It would be that they are Capricorn.

The next steps to confirm and research this would be to incorporate capricorn depictions into the rating spreadsheets, rating them alongside the Aries examples to gauge how well they score. This depiction of capricorn -if relevant- is a lead that may produce some valuable hints on where the VMS artist was from, or at least hints on where they were likely not from. My initial tests have shown that mammal capricorns rate quite highly on average, but I'm yet to finalise criteria that would rate them effectively and fairly (and punish them for their capricorn features, like beards). 

Another step is simply to add more manuscripts to the lists, but that takes time ]]>
As part of the ongoing zodiac rating/collection project, approximately 230 depictions of Aries (from ~160 sources) have been logged in order to compare them to the VMS Aries symbols. Exciting or interesting examples are... rather scarce.

There are multiple aspects of the VMS symbols that are simply plain missing in the vast majority of Aries depictions. The horns are almost never curved correctly, the body type is more often short and stubby, the tail is often far too long, and the animal is almost never interested in a tree or plant. 

So.. is the VMS aries depiction simply rare?

The Depiction (eating a tree on a rocky slope)

Many of you may be familiar with this example from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.:


  image_2026-07-27_173151446.png (Size: 125.59 KB / Downloads: 198)

Well, this depiction (of a creature reaching up onto a tree, or reaching higher, rocky ground) is a semi-common Capricorn depiction. Not Aries. Here are a whole bunch of examples i've come across so far:

  VMSariesboth.JPG (Size: 25.28 KB / Downloads: 168)

  capricorns_on_trees.JPG (Size: 93.33 KB / Downloads: 184)

  capricorns_on_rocky_hills.JPG (Size: 63.39 KB / Downloads: 182)

This is perhaps the best evidence that VMS aries is actually inspired by a depiction of capricorn: the depiction of a creature on a rocky slope, trying to reach for a tree or high ground. 

How can it be Capricorn? It's between Pisces and Taurus!

Examples of this happening

So far, I have come across 2 examples that demonstrate instances where this mix-up / mixing of styles happened: 

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This example (that I just mentioned above) is in the Aries section, but is actually based on capricorn. The goat beard gives this away:

  aries_with_beard.JPG (Size: 9.83 KB / Downloads: 179)

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This example has aries and capricorn mixed-up: The capricorn is depicted in march, and aries is depicted in december:

  capricorn_aries_mixup.JPG (Size: 20.94 KB / Downloads: 180)

This was not a binding error; these depictions were indeed on the verso of those months.

So interestingly, the two examples with this capricorn depiction displayed in the "aries section" seem to have different reasons for having happened. One is seemingly a mistake, and the other seems to have been a conscious choice to use the typical capricorn depiction for aries.

Similar designs for aries and capricorns within manuscripts

Quite often, the designs of Aries and Capricorn are rather similar within the same manuscript. Even in cases that capricorn is a sea-goat, the mammal-half is often similar to the Aries within that manuscript. Here are a couple of examples, but there are many more: 


  capricorn_aries_comparison.JPG (Size: 55.16 KB / Downloads: 167)

Other attributes that suggest a capricorn inspired design

The horns - Horns on Aries entries are very often curled, twisted and bobbly. Capricorn horns are often smooth (not always), and generally a longer version of the shape found in the VMS. 

The tail - Tails are more often small tufts on the capricorn designs, similar to the VMS. The tails on aries designs is more often far longer. 

The body - Capricorns are generally depicted as relatively slim creatures with longer legs, as opposed to the common fluffy, poofy build found in many Aries. 

Common Capricorn attributes missing in the VMS

The Beard - Capricorns are normally depicted with a little goat beard, which is missing in both depictions found in the VMS. However, this is not a universal feature; there's already an example of a beardless example above in this post. But I looked through quickly and found a few:


  capricorn_beardless.JPG (Size: 24.56 KB / Downloads: 180)

What I'm suggesting

I believe that the design for Aries may have been inspired by a capricorn depiction. This does not necessarily mean that the intended sign IS capricorn, only that the VMS depiction of Aries was inspired by it.  Frankly, the only reason we assume this to be an Aries design is its location between Pisces and Taurus. If we had only these VMS pages in isolation, without Pisces and Taurus, the logical conclusion would not be that they are Aries at all. It would be that they are Capricorn.

The next steps to confirm and research this would be to incorporate capricorn depictions into the rating spreadsheets, rating them alongside the Aries examples to gauge how well they score. This depiction of capricorn -if relevant- is a lead that may produce some valuable hints on where the VMS artist was from, or at least hints on where they were likely not from. My initial tests have shown that mammal capricorns rate quite highly on average, but I'm yet to finalise criteria that would rate them effectively and fairly (and punish them for their capricorn features, like beards). 

Another step is simply to add more manuscripts to the lists, but that takes time ]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5979.html Wed, 29 Jul 2026 15:56:48 +0000 Koen G]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5979.html Register or Login to view., also known as the Bonmont Psalter, which I would like to point out as potentially relevant. The usual caveat: I don't recall discussion of this MS, but this may be classic Voynich amnesia.

Second caveat: this MS is relatively early for our timeframe, made in the middle of the 13th century (Upper Rhine Region). I see it as an interesting node in a network rather than a potential direct source.

The interesting section is in the beginning: the MS begins with a calendar, certainly derived from a different source than the psalter part. I will list some things.

1. "Star" with each Sign

This one should immediately stand out to anyone interested in the Voynich Zodiac sequence. Each of the signs is shown semi-interacting with a big, spiked, faced "star". From the accompanying text, it is immediately clear that this heavenly body represents the Sun: in this case "sol in Leonem". The addition of the sun is thus perfectly logical: each sign is active while the sun passes through it. 


  Untitled-1.jpg (Size: 190.08 KB / Downloads: 144)

Did the VM stars in Pisces, Virgo and Scorpio derive from such tradition? Quite possibly, in my opinion, but then completely bastardized. They no longer stand out as suns, and Pisces has two of them. So if the VM nonsense derived from a "Sun in Sign" tradition, its originally sensible meaning was no longer followed.

2. Some stylistics

As said, the Bonmont Psalter and the VM are almost two centuries apart, and their styles clearly belong to different periods. If there is any connection, I believe we must imagine additional nodes between them. Still, there are some particularities worth pointing out. 

First, all suns have full heads inside, a parallel we have had trouble finding in late medieval sources. Those prefer the smiley face: a mouth, nose and eyes, while the VM, early sources and some renaissance artists sometimes complete the sun-face with hair and a jawline. In the latter case, it feels like a personification is imposed on the celestial body. You can see this in Leo posted above, and different faces/angles in the Libra and Sagittarius suns below.


  Untitled-2.jpg (Size: 394.18 KB / Downloads: 143)

I also noted some possibly coincidental likeness between the style of drawing the outer rays with dotted triangles (central Rosette). And the way the libra sun splits an asterisked field with its twelve red, triangular rays.

3. Taurus "basket"

The main struggle with finding parallels for Taurus is the apparent feeding contraption both bulls are accompanied by. The wicker pattern suggests that the VM artist did see these as mangers of some sort. The green paint seems out of place since I presume mangers would be filled with hay during the winter months. Which brings us to the main reason you won't find any bulls eating from mangers in calendars: they would just go out to pasture. And either way, mangers would not look like this. 

(Notice also that the VM artist shoved trees in Aries faces, equally inappropriately; sheep seek out vegetation that grows low to the ground, like grass and herbs). 

What if the awkward, beige cylinder was something else entirely in the source? In the Bonmont Psalter, Taurus shares the space with a rare monthly labor, which appears to me like grafting. The root stem has been prepared, and the man appears to be preparing a twig for attachment. So imagine a Taurus in such a grafting (or pruning?) scene: the bull might be close enough to a cylinder to make it look like a weird feeder to the inexperienced artist.


  Untitled-3.jpg (Size: 373.03 KB / Downloads: 146)

In short, I think this manuscript's calendar has some potential to, given one or two in-between steps and modernization of some signs, explain some of the most bizarre things we see in the VM Zodiac. Or it could all be coincidental.]]> Register or Login to view., also known as the Bonmont Psalter, which I would like to point out as potentially relevant. The usual caveat: I don't recall discussion of this MS, but this may be classic Voynich amnesia.

Second caveat: this MS is relatively early for our timeframe, made in the middle of the 13th century (Upper Rhine Region). I see it as an interesting node in a network rather than a potential direct source.

The interesting section is in the beginning: the MS begins with a calendar, certainly derived from a different source than the psalter part. I will list some things.

1. "Star" with each Sign

This one should immediately stand out to anyone interested in the Voynich Zodiac sequence. Each of the signs is shown semi-interacting with a big, spiked, faced "star". From the accompanying text, it is immediately clear that this heavenly body represents the Sun: in this case "sol in Leonem". The addition of the sun is thus perfectly logical: each sign is active while the sun passes through it. 


  Untitled-1.jpg (Size: 190.08 KB / Downloads: 144)

Did the VM stars in Pisces, Virgo and Scorpio derive from such tradition? Quite possibly, in my opinion, but then completely bastardized. They no longer stand out as suns, and Pisces has two of them. So if the VM nonsense derived from a "Sun in Sign" tradition, its originally sensible meaning was no longer followed.

2. Some stylistics

As said, the Bonmont Psalter and the VM are almost two centuries apart, and their styles clearly belong to different periods. If there is any connection, I believe we must imagine additional nodes between them. Still, there are some particularities worth pointing out. 

First, all suns have full heads inside, a parallel we have had trouble finding in late medieval sources. Those prefer the smiley face: a mouth, nose and eyes, while the VM, early sources and some renaissance artists sometimes complete the sun-face with hair and a jawline. In the latter case, it feels like a personification is imposed on the celestial body. You can see this in Leo posted above, and different faces/angles in the Libra and Sagittarius suns below.


  Untitled-2.jpg (Size: 394.18 KB / Downloads: 143)

I also noted some possibly coincidental likeness between the style of drawing the outer rays with dotted triangles (central Rosette). And the way the libra sun splits an asterisked field with its twelve red, triangular rays.

3. Taurus "basket"

The main struggle with finding parallels for Taurus is the apparent feeding contraption both bulls are accompanied by. The wicker pattern suggests that the VM artist did see these as mangers of some sort. The green paint seems out of place since I presume mangers would be filled with hay during the winter months. Which brings us to the main reason you won't find any bulls eating from mangers in calendars: they would just go out to pasture. And either way, mangers would not look like this. 

(Notice also that the VM artist shoved trees in Aries faces, equally inappropriately; sheep seek out vegetation that grows low to the ground, like grass and herbs). 

What if the awkward, beige cylinder was something else entirely in the source? In the Bonmont Psalter, Taurus shares the space with a rare monthly labor, which appears to me like grafting. The root stem has been prepared, and the man appears to be preparing a twig for attachment. So imagine a Taurus in such a grafting (or pruning?) scene: the bull might be close enough to a cylinder to make it look like a weird feeder to the inexperienced artist.


  Untitled-3.jpg (Size: 373.03 KB / Downloads: 146)

In short, I think this manuscript's calendar has some potential to, given one or two in-between steps and modernization of some signs, explain some of the most bizarre things we see in the VM Zodiac. Or it could all be coincidental.]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5971.html Mon, 27 Jul 2026 20:28:21 +0000 DG97EEB]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5971.html Register or Login to view.

1365-1375 (vers 1370) probably from Padua

I did the usual searches but nothing came up..

3 dragons and a dinosaur (?)

And some Swallowtail Merlons

  751062305_Ms_Mas_0116_0046_680x510.jpg (Size: 59.76 KB / Downloads: 180)

  751062305_Ms_Mas_0116_0069_680x510.jpg (Size: 63.47 KB / Downloads: 176)

  751062305_Ms_Mas_0116_0070_680x510.jpg (Size: 60.04 KB / Downloads: 174)

  751062305_Ms_Mas_0116_0091_680x510.jpg (Size: 63.31 KB / Downloads: 172)

  751062305_Ms_Mas_0116_0182_680x510.jpg (Size: 60.92 KB / Downloads: 170) ]]> Register or Login to view.

1365-1375 (vers 1370) probably from Padua

I did the usual searches but nothing came up..

3 dragons and a dinosaur (?)

And some Swallowtail Merlons

  751062305_Ms_Mas_0116_0046_680x510.jpg (Size: 59.76 KB / Downloads: 180)

  751062305_Ms_Mas_0116_0069_680x510.jpg (Size: 63.47 KB / Downloads: 176)

  751062305_Ms_Mas_0116_0070_680x510.jpg (Size: 60.04 KB / Downloads: 174)

  751062305_Ms_Mas_0116_0091_680x510.jpg (Size: 63.31 KB / Downloads: 172)

  751062305_Ms_Mas_0116_0182_680x510.jpg (Size: 60.92 KB / Downloads: 170) ]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5952.html Fri, 24 Jul 2026 00:59:19 +0000 R. Sale]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5952.html
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?????]]>
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?????]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5928.html Thu, 16 Jul 2026 20:39:28 +0000 Dracaena]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5928.html

  ReinerMusterbuch_Dragon1.jpg (Size: 766.85 KB / Downloads: 113)
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The foliate tail, the delineation line along the wing, ears, biting posture, 3 toes.. I just want to leave this here for comparison to other depictions that were posted in this forum.

The Musterbuch was already discussed here regarding the celestial faces: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

I also want to draw your attention to the "scorpio templates" 
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Full digitization: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.]]>

  ReinerMusterbuch_Dragon1.jpg (Size: 766.85 KB / Downloads: 113)
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The foliate tail, the delineation line along the wing, ears, biting posture, 3 toes.. I just want to leave this here for comparison to other depictions that were posted in this forum.

The Musterbuch was already discussed here regarding the celestial faces: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

I also want to draw your attention to the "scorpio templates" 
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Full digitization: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.]]>