<![CDATA[The Voynich Ninja - Imagery]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/ Fri, 01 May 2026 17:31:02 +0000 MyBB <![CDATA[La Sfera by Gregorio Dati]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5609.html Tue, 14 Apr 2026 18:45:11 +0000 JustAnotherTheory]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5609.html La Sfera by Gregorio Dati is an early 15th century North Italian illustrated cosmographical poem. Dati lived an unusual life and I highly recommend that you read about it here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. Some highlights are his 26 children, 4 wives, twice escaping the bubonic plague, and many voyages.

Anyway, La Sfera was very popular in the 1400s and was copied many times. In fact, it became so popular at some point that it rivalled the famous Bellifortis. But then, when Gregorio Dati died, the interest in La Sfera instantly diminished, and in fact all but disappeared.

The reason I'm posting this here is because (in my opinion) the imagery in La Sfera seems similar to that of the VMS. Let me begin by a direct parallel to the VMS f68 foldouts:


.png   01.png (Size: 169.07 KB / Downloads: 230)

Here are some relevant illustrations in La Sfera.


.png   02.png (Size: 541.17 KB / Downloads: 230)

In fact, there are so many such star maps with the sun above and the moon below, I don't have enough space to show them all here. There is a collaborative online project called "La Sfera Project" that aims to gather information about all the copies of La Sfera (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.). I also encourage you to take a look.

The VMS also contains a disk with a T-O globe in the middle. This is also a feature of La Sfera:


.png   03.png (Size: 425.72 KB / Downloads: 230)

Again, I'm just scratching the surface, as there are dozens of such diagrams. 

Perhaps a more impressive parallel to the VMS are the vast networks of canals and lakes, some of which also seem to be coloured in the same manner as the VMS. It almost looks like the VMS, without the nymphs in the water:


.png   04.png (Size: 432.4 KB / Downloads: 230)

There are, here again, hundreds of such drawings.

Here's another parallel to the VMS:


.png   05.png (Size: 548.83 KB / Downloads: 229)

Many, many other beautiful illustrations (that I picked randomly from a pool of 30 copies of La Sfera) also remind one of the VMS:


.png   06.png (Size: 943.91 KB / Downloads: 229)

And we also have the swallowtail merlons in at least one copy:


.png   07.png (Size: 347.41 KB / Downloads: 229)

______________________________

Links to all manuscripts here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.]]> La Sfera by Gregorio Dati is an early 15th century North Italian illustrated cosmographical poem. Dati lived an unusual life and I highly recommend that you read about it here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. Some highlights are his 26 children, 4 wives, twice escaping the bubonic plague, and many voyages.

Anyway, La Sfera was very popular in the 1400s and was copied many times. In fact, it became so popular at some point that it rivalled the famous Bellifortis. But then, when Gregorio Dati died, the interest in La Sfera instantly diminished, and in fact all but disappeared.

The reason I'm posting this here is because (in my opinion) the imagery in La Sfera seems similar to that of the VMS. Let me begin by a direct parallel to the VMS f68 foldouts:


.png   01.png (Size: 169.07 KB / Downloads: 230)

Here are some relevant illustrations in La Sfera.


.png   02.png (Size: 541.17 KB / Downloads: 230)

In fact, there are so many such star maps with the sun above and the moon below, I don't have enough space to show them all here. There is a collaborative online project called "La Sfera Project" that aims to gather information about all the copies of La Sfera (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.). I also encourage you to take a look.

The VMS also contains a disk with a T-O globe in the middle. This is also a feature of La Sfera:


.png   03.png (Size: 425.72 KB / Downloads: 230)

Again, I'm just scratching the surface, as there are dozens of such diagrams. 

Perhaps a more impressive parallel to the VMS are the vast networks of canals and lakes, some of which also seem to be coloured in the same manner as the VMS. It almost looks like the VMS, without the nymphs in the water:


.png   04.png (Size: 432.4 KB / Downloads: 230)

There are, here again, hundreds of such drawings.

Here's another parallel to the VMS:


.png   05.png (Size: 548.83 KB / Downloads: 229)

Many, many other beautiful illustrations (that I picked randomly from a pool of 30 copies of La Sfera) also remind one of the VMS:


.png   06.png (Size: 943.91 KB / Downloads: 229)

And we also have the swallowtail merlons in at least one copy:


.png   07.png (Size: 347.41 KB / Downloads: 229)

______________________________

Links to all manuscripts here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.]]> <![CDATA[Number(?) in f36r]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5589.html Mon, 13 Apr 2026 12:28:39 +0000 Rafal]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5589.html

.png   pic.png (Size: 154.53 KB / Downloads: 230)

Would you agree that in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. there is "12" written in the roots in quite modern way?

Was it discussed before?]]>

.png   pic.png (Size: 154.53 KB / Downloads: 230)

Would you agree that in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. there is "12" written in the roots in quite modern way?

Was it discussed before?]]> <![CDATA["Inserted daisies” on folio 40 line up? A coincidence?]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5552.html Thu, 09 Apr 2026 13:24:27 +0000 pseudio]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5552.html Manuscript Studies I found myself enjoying browsing the VM on Jason Davies’ Voynich Voyager tool. I was looking at the bifolios Lisa identifies as Scribe 2 that seem to have been shuffled into the outer layers of Quire 5, namely folio 33/folio 40 and folio 34/folio 39. 

I was having a grand old time when something about the B style daisies on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. caught my eye. Their positions seemed to line up through the page.

I wasn't sure but I was curious so I attempted to use my very imited graphic design skills and programs (i.e. microsoft paint and microsoft paint 3d) to see whether the daises were actually in the same spot. I took some screen shots of the areas of interrest on Voynich Voyager. I reversed the image of f40r, aligned it as best I could with You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. using the faint paint bleed-through visible on f40r, and then faded one image over the other. I have recorded that process to share what appeared here:



To me, it does look like the “inserted daisies” were placed in the sam position on both sides of the folio. At the same time, the daisies themselves do not align in a way that suggests one was simply traced from the other.

This may just be coincidence, of course. 

But I am not entirely sure that it is. Koen G has pointed out elsewhere that You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. :

(27-06-2024, 06:52 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.... are the two VM plants that have a "daisy" imposed on another flower. ...

So if these two daisies are actually aligned with each other on opposite sides of the same folio, that seems potetially interesting to me. Is the artist responsible for these two plants using a deliberate visual cue to signal some kind of relationship between these two plants?

I thought there was something very interesting You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. where Koen G posted an image of plant that he had found in Dioscorides manuscript Chig.F.VII.15 with a similar weird "rayed" daisy on an oddly structured plant. User Juan_Sali replied:

(26-06-2024, 11:22 PM)Juan_Sali Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Koen G. You compared the plant with the VMS You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. but I think that it is closer to the VMS You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. , both plants are in the same folio, maybe it is not casual

Could it be that the two plants are meant to be related botanically, perhaps two members of the same plant family, marked by the shared daisy insertion as a visual cue? 

Another possibility that occurred to me. Could they represent two stages in the life of the same plant? It is more far-fetched, given how different the two drawings are. But could the large bulb below the flower on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. be something that develops into the triangular form beneath the flower on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as the rosette of petals emerges? The double stem on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. versus single stem on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. makes this less likely, of course, but the leaves on both plants do share some similarities.

Could this be a visual cue signalling a more symbolic or religious relationship between these two plants? That certainly seems plausible, though I don't know where I would even start to try and figure out what on earth it could mean!

Of course David Jackson’s suggestion in part 2 of episode 1 of Voynich Talk may be right: perhaps the B style artist is just a bit sloppy and isn't really interested in what the centres of flowers really looks like and just thinks they all look more or less like daisies. It could just be that the way these two line up with each other is an accident or coincidence.

I'd love to hear what other people think.]]> Manuscript Studies I found myself enjoying browsing the VM on Jason Davies’ Voynich Voyager tool. I was looking at the bifolios Lisa identifies as Scribe 2 that seem to have been shuffled into the outer layers of Quire 5, namely folio 33/folio 40 and folio 34/folio 39. 

I was having a grand old time when something about the B style daisies on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. caught my eye. Their positions seemed to line up through the page.

I wasn't sure but I was curious so I attempted to use my very imited graphic design skills and programs (i.e. microsoft paint and microsoft paint 3d) to see whether the daises were actually in the same spot. I took some screen shots of the areas of interrest on Voynich Voyager. I reversed the image of f40r, aligned it as best I could with You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. using the faint paint bleed-through visible on f40r, and then faded one image over the other. I have recorded that process to share what appeared here:



To me, it does look like the “inserted daisies” were placed in the sam position on both sides of the folio. At the same time, the daisies themselves do not align in a way that suggests one was simply traced from the other.

This may just be coincidence, of course. 

But I am not entirely sure that it is. Koen G has pointed out elsewhere that You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. :

(27-06-2024, 06:52 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.... are the two VM plants that have a "daisy" imposed on another flower. ...

So if these two daisies are actually aligned with each other on opposite sides of the same folio, that seems potetially interesting to me. Is the artist responsible for these two plants using a deliberate visual cue to signal some kind of relationship between these two plants?

I thought there was something very interesting You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. where Koen G posted an image of plant that he had found in Dioscorides manuscript Chig.F.VII.15 with a similar weird "rayed" daisy on an oddly structured plant. User Juan_Sali replied:

(26-06-2024, 11:22 PM)Juan_Sali Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Koen G. You compared the plant with the VMS You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. but I think that it is closer to the VMS You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. , both plants are in the same folio, maybe it is not casual

Could it be that the two plants are meant to be related botanically, perhaps two members of the same plant family, marked by the shared daisy insertion as a visual cue? 

Another possibility that occurred to me. Could they represent two stages in the life of the same plant? It is more far-fetched, given how different the two drawings are. But could the large bulb below the flower on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. be something that develops into the triangular form beneath the flower on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as the rosette of petals emerges? The double stem on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. versus single stem on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. makes this less likely, of course, but the leaves on both plants do share some similarities.

Could this be a visual cue signalling a more symbolic or religious relationship between these two plants? That certainly seems plausible, though I don't know where I would even start to try and figure out what on earth it could mean!

Of course David Jackson’s suggestion in part 2 of episode 1 of Voynich Talk may be right: perhaps the B style artist is just a bit sloppy and isn't really interested in what the centres of flowers really looks like and just thinks they all look more or less like daisies. It could just be that the way these two line up with each other is an accident or coincidence.

I'd love to hear what other people think.]]> <![CDATA[Creature(?) in Rosettes page]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5517.html Tue, 07 Apr 2026 12:03:18 +0000 Rafal]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5517.html
.png   pic.png (Size: 230.1 KB / Downloads: 212)

It is in the top right circle, close to the castle.

It is absent for example here, in the discussion of Voynich animals:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

I think the main dilemma here is if it is some creature at all or not. I included a poll for that.
But hey, it has head, eye, four legs and a tail.

How do you think, what could it be?

For me it looks very alienish. Of course some alien straight from sci-fi movie would be a bit anachronistic, although not as much as you could think.
But I asked AI to reimagine this picture as alien creature and that's what I got:

.jpg   pic3.jpg (Size: 61.03 KB / Downloads: 209) ]]>
.png   pic.png (Size: 230.1 KB / Downloads: 212)

It is in the top right circle, close to the castle.

It is absent for example here, in the discussion of Voynich animals:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

I think the main dilemma here is if it is some creature at all or not. I included a poll for that.
But hey, it has head, eye, four legs and a tail.

How do you think, what could it be?

For me it looks very alienish. Of course some alien straight from sci-fi movie would be a bit anachronistic, although not as much as you could think.
But I asked AI to reimagine this picture as alien creature and that's what I got:

.jpg   pic3.jpg (Size: 61.03 KB / Downloads: 209) ]]> <![CDATA[Stars in f68r1/f68r2]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5514.html Fri, 03 Apr 2026 21:13:20 +0000 Rafal]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5514.html
.jpg   pic.jpg (Size: 64.14 KB / Downloads: 193)

The stars are placed into a circle. I believe that such thing - some art in manuscript put into a circle is often called "medallion".

The stars have labels. It would seem very natural that they are names of the stars but unfortunately nobody was able to read any of them, just like the rest of Voynich Manuscript.

Of course, it would be great to find the inspiration for this picture in another source, with stars signed in normal alphabet. Then we could match the Voynichese labels and the other labels.

As far as I know such inspiration is unknown. I have seen several similar pictures but in all of them the stars were without labels.
Have a look:

.jpg   SanMarcoBasilicaVenice.jpg (Size: 186.6 KB / Downloads: 191)

.jpg   PamplonaBibel_Augsburg.jpg (Size: 73.07 KB / Downloads: 191)

.jpg   TractatusDeCreatione.jpg (Size: 84.69 KB / Downloads: 189)

All these examples are actually not astronomical but religious and are sacral art about the creation of the world. The stars in them are generic and don't represent real, distinct stars having names.

Woukd you say that these kinds of pictures are inspiration for f68r1 and f68r2 or not?

If they are inspiration then it would mean the Voynich artist added labels to generic, nameless stars in his source. Would you agree?

In such case what would such labels mean? Some star names assigned randomly?
Or could he have another inspiration, different from these religious pictures?
Are there any "maps of the sky" in medieval manuscripts with sky presented in similar "medalion" way but with proper stars, signed and properly positioned?]]>
.jpg   pic.jpg (Size: 64.14 KB / Downloads: 193)

The stars are placed into a circle. I believe that such thing - some art in manuscript put into a circle is often called "medallion".

The stars have labels. It would seem very natural that they are names of the stars but unfortunately nobody was able to read any of them, just like the rest of Voynich Manuscript.

Of course, it would be great to find the inspiration for this picture in another source, with stars signed in normal alphabet. Then we could match the Voynichese labels and the other labels.

As far as I know such inspiration is unknown. I have seen several similar pictures but in all of them the stars were without labels.
Have a look:

.jpg   SanMarcoBasilicaVenice.jpg (Size: 186.6 KB / Downloads: 191)

.jpg   PamplonaBibel_Augsburg.jpg (Size: 73.07 KB / Downloads: 191)

.jpg   TractatusDeCreatione.jpg (Size: 84.69 KB / Downloads: 189)

All these examples are actually not astronomical but religious and are sacral art about the creation of the world. The stars in them are generic and don't represent real, distinct stars having names.

Woukd you say that these kinds of pictures are inspiration for f68r1 and f68r2 or not?

If they are inspiration then it would mean the Voynich artist added labels to generic, nameless stars in his source. Would you agree?

In such case what would such labels mean? Some star names assigned randomly?
Or could he have another inspiration, different from these religious pictures?
Are there any "maps of the sky" in medieval manuscripts with sky presented in similar "medalion" way but with proper stars, signed and properly positioned?]]> <![CDATA[A funny coincidence with the root of f2r]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5498.html Wed, 01 Apr 2026 08:25:37 +0000 JustAnotherTheory]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5498.html

.png   aaa.png (Size: 637.26 KB / Downloads: 88)

The MS on the right is the Kitāb Arshimīdas fī al-binkāmāt (British Library, Add MS 23391). It's a 13th century Arabic treatise on hydraulic machinery. I thought some of the machines looked a bit like VMS plant roots.

EDIT: I rotated the Arabic picture upside-down so that it matches the orientation of the VMS root.]]>

.png   aaa.png (Size: 637.26 KB / Downloads: 88)

The MS on the right is the Kitāb Arshimīdas fī al-binkāmāt (British Library, Add MS 23391). It's a 13th century Arabic treatise on hydraulic machinery. I thought some of the machines looked a bit like VMS plant roots.

EDIT: I rotated the Arabic picture upside-down so that it matches the orientation of the VMS root.]]> <![CDATA[The Rocca Borromeo di Angera castle]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5487.html Sun, 29 Mar 2026 08:02:18 +0000 JustAnotherTheory]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5487.html Register or Login to view. castle. It is in northern Italy and features many resemblanes with the VMS "castle" imagery. Here is a picture of the castle:


.png   Sans titre.png (Size: 403.09 KB / Downloads: 101)

Several interseting parallels can be made with the VMS. Apart from the obvious presence of swallowtail merlons, and its geographic location, this castle sits atop a mountain, overlooking a lake, and has long walls of merlons, just like in the VMS:


.png   azeaze.png (Size: 443.13 KB / Downloads: 101)

Note that just like the VMS, these walls are also quite close to a large body of water. Here is another section of the swallowtail wall:


.png   aaa.png (Size: 312.83 KB / Downloads: 99)

Compare the above images with the classic VMS castle:


.png   4444.png (Size: 546.34 KB / Downloads: 98)

The castle is also known for its medieval herbal garden:


.png   dddf.png (Size: 610.87 KB / Downloads: 98)

Finally, some frescoes inside the castle look interesting. It also contained a zodiac room, whcih is unfortuantely today a little bit destroyed.


.png   fffff.png (Size: 526.02 KB / Downloads: 98)

What do you guys think?]]> Register or Login to view. castle. It is in northern Italy and features many resemblanes with the VMS "castle" imagery. Here is a picture of the castle:


.png   Sans titre.png (Size: 403.09 KB / Downloads: 101)

Several interseting parallels can be made with the VMS. Apart from the obvious presence of swallowtail merlons, and its geographic location, this castle sits atop a mountain, overlooking a lake, and has long walls of merlons, just like in the VMS:


.png   azeaze.png (Size: 443.13 KB / Downloads: 101)

Note that just like the VMS, these walls are also quite close to a large body of water. Here is another section of the swallowtail wall:


.png   aaa.png (Size: 312.83 KB / Downloads: 99)

Compare the above images with the classic VMS castle:


.png   4444.png (Size: 546.34 KB / Downloads: 98)

The castle is also known for its medieval herbal garden:


.png   dddf.png (Size: 610.87 KB / Downloads: 98)

Finally, some frescoes inside the castle look interesting. It also contained a zodiac room, whcih is unfortuantely today a little bit destroyed.


.png   fffff.png (Size: 526.02 KB / Downloads: 98)

What do you guys think?]]> <![CDATA[If it's a medicinal why the lack of accuracy?]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5481.html Wed, 25 Mar 2026 21:33:41 +0000 oeesordy]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5481.html Register or Login to view..  I'm so wish washy on the Voynich, I know, does it have meaning, maybe not?  Anyway it suddenly dawned on me when I looked at the flowers coming from one the Calyx's and I saw 3 and the Calyx had one stem.  I looked this up and its impossible unless I'm mistaken.  It does attempt to have what looks like 3 red, but no stems, except one for 3 flowers on a Calyx.  The main Calyx has the stem with one flower, that's how it supposed to work.  

I understand if this was a secret code with instructions for prohibited information and valuable information of the time; I do think the author or authors was involved with the pictures would at least maintain this accuracy.  So why would there be fake flowers in there for a medicinal, in a mix among what looks like genuine plants? The telling feature I think is that well this is rushed and it might not be a medicinal?  Could the text be rushed too?  Am I implying that it does not mean anything if the text is rushed, no.  However, if you are making up plants, could you make up text, yes.  Does that have meaning to the person it could, but would it be common to the public maybe not.

The fact that this flower is made up, could mean the text is made up.  Yes the script is invented, but what I'm saying is that this might not follow a language, it could be an invented language.  It does have structure and by now humans should have found a language for the Voynich.  So if it is an invented language how does one interpret the grammar and try to at least substitute a language as a model to make any sense from it.  The voynich grammar from vord positions should show the model language.  If this cannot be found then we may very well have something that only has meaning to the author or authors.  This means the public was never meant to see the Voynich.]]> Register or Login to view..  I'm so wish washy on the Voynich, I know, does it have meaning, maybe not?  Anyway it suddenly dawned on me when I looked at the flowers coming from one the Calyx's and I saw 3 and the Calyx had one stem.  I looked this up and its impossible unless I'm mistaken.  It does attempt to have what looks like 3 red, but no stems, except one for 3 flowers on a Calyx.  The main Calyx has the stem with one flower, that's how it supposed to work.  

I understand if this was a secret code with instructions for prohibited information and valuable information of the time; I do think the author or authors was involved with the pictures would at least maintain this accuracy.  So why would there be fake flowers in there for a medicinal, in a mix among what looks like genuine plants? The telling feature I think is that well this is rushed and it might not be a medicinal?  Could the text be rushed too?  Am I implying that it does not mean anything if the text is rushed, no.  However, if you are making up plants, could you make up text, yes.  Does that have meaning to the person it could, but would it be common to the public maybe not.

The fact that this flower is made up, could mean the text is made up.  Yes the script is invented, but what I'm saying is that this might not follow a language, it could be an invented language.  It does have structure and by now humans should have found a language for the Voynich.  So if it is an invented language how does one interpret the grammar and try to at least substitute a language as a model to make any sense from it.  The voynich grammar from vord positions should show the model language.  If this cannot be found then we may very well have something that only has meaning to the author or authors.  This means the public was never meant to see the Voynich.]]> <![CDATA[BnF Latin 7239: a coloured copy of Taccola]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5470.html Sun, 22 Mar 2026 19:25:17 +0000 JustAnotherTheory]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5470.html Register or Login to view. is a 15th century manuscript. It is a copy of several of Mariano Taccola's works by Paulus Santinus, in Venice. The interesting thing about this compendium is that Taccola's illustrations were copied with colours. The colour of the water is green in this manuscript. 

I believe this manuscript is relevant to the VMS. Could some, more knowledgable forum members take a look at it? In the meantime, here are some examples I found interesting.


.png   03.png (Size: 166.85 KB / Downloads: 149)


.png   12.png (Size: 276.92 KB / Downloads: 149)


.png   09.png (Size: 363.7 KB / Downloads: 149)


.png   05.png (Size: 178.99 KB / Downloads: 148)


.png   04.png (Size: 441.69 KB / Downloads: 150)

There are many other noteworthy illustrations in this MS. I'll end with a peculiar comparison to a VMS nymph:


.png   11.png (Size: 501.04 KB / Downloads: 150) ]]> Register or Login to view. is a 15th century manuscript. It is a copy of several of Mariano Taccola's works by Paulus Santinus, in Venice. The interesting thing about this compendium is that Taccola's illustrations were copied with colours. The colour of the water is green in this manuscript. 

I believe this manuscript is relevant to the VMS. Could some, more knowledgable forum members take a look at it? In the meantime, here are some examples I found interesting.


.png   03.png (Size: 166.85 KB / Downloads: 149)


.png   12.png (Size: 276.92 KB / Downloads: 149)


.png   09.png (Size: 363.7 KB / Downloads: 149)


.png   05.png (Size: 178.99 KB / Downloads: 148)


.png   04.png (Size: 441.69 KB / Downloads: 150)

There are many other noteworthy illustrations in this MS. I'll end with a peculiar comparison to a VMS nymph:


.png   11.png (Size: 501.04 KB / Downloads: 150) ]]> <![CDATA[Lilienfeld Concordantiae caritatis, HS 151]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5456.html Tue, 17 Mar 2026 18:12:28 +0000 Bernd]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5456.html Concordantiae caritatis
HS 151
Stiftsarchiv und Stiftsbibliothek Lilienfeld, Austria
mid 14th century
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

As Koen posted You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., this manuscript was highlighted by Volkhard Huth for containing two animals somewhat resembling the VM Scorpio. There's also crocodiles in a similar style.

.jpg   scorpio.jpg (Size: 61.31 KB / Downloads: 191)

.jpg   HS151_306.jpg (Size: 55.72 KB / Downloads: 191)

.jpg   HS151_402.jpg (Size: 64.95 KB / Downloads: 189)

But this manuscript also has far more interesting imagery.:

The overall composition of small roundels surrounding a large central one
Moon faces closely resembling the VM Cosmo section

.jpg   f67r.jpg (Size: 134.51 KB / Downloads: 190)

.jpg   HS151_12a.jpg (Size: 79.04 KB / Downloads: 190)

.jpg   HS151_12b.jpg (Size: 57.36 KB / Downloads: 190)

.jpg   HS151_12c.jpg (Size: 23.93 KB / Downloads: 191)

Lots of figures pointing, including such with a beret like in VM You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Moses is frequently portrayed with the same red cap

.jpg   f71r.jpg (Size: 111.33 KB / Downloads: 191)

.jpg   HS151_red cap_2.jpg (Size: 37.73 KB / Downloads: 191)

.jpg   HS151_red cap.jpg (Size: 70.23 KB / Downloads: 191)

.jpg   moses.jpg (Size: 60.12 KB / Downloads: 192)

Some are shown from behind which might have been the inspiration for VM You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

.jpg   f57v.jpg (Size: 75.59 KB / Downloads: 190)

.jpg   HS151_384_a.jpg (Size: 57.17 KB / Downloads: 190)

.jpg   HS151_398.jpg (Size: 52.68 KB / Downloads: 189)

Headdress closely resembling the VM Sagittarius crossbowman's

.jpg   sagittarius.jpg (Size: 67.59 KB / Downloads: 190)

.jpg   HS151_headdress.jpg (Size: 86.2 KB / Downloads: 191) ]]> Concordantiae caritatis
HS 151
Stiftsarchiv und Stiftsbibliothek Lilienfeld, Austria
mid 14th century
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

As Koen posted You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., this manuscript was highlighted by Volkhard Huth for containing two animals somewhat resembling the VM Scorpio. There's also crocodiles in a similar style.

.jpg   scorpio.jpg (Size: 61.31 KB / Downloads: 191)

.jpg   HS151_306.jpg (Size: 55.72 KB / Downloads: 191)

.jpg   HS151_402.jpg (Size: 64.95 KB / Downloads: 189)

But this manuscript also has far more interesting imagery.:

The overall composition of small roundels surrounding a large central one
Moon faces closely resembling the VM Cosmo section

.jpg   f67r.jpg (Size: 134.51 KB / Downloads: 190)

.jpg   HS151_12a.jpg (Size: 79.04 KB / Downloads: 190)

.jpg   HS151_12b.jpg (Size: 57.36 KB / Downloads: 190)

.jpg   HS151_12c.jpg (Size: 23.93 KB / Downloads: 191)

Lots of figures pointing, including such with a beret like in VM You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Moses is frequently portrayed with the same red cap

.jpg   f71r.jpg (Size: 111.33 KB / Downloads: 191)

.jpg   HS151_red cap_2.jpg (Size: 37.73 KB / Downloads: 191)

.jpg   HS151_red cap.jpg (Size: 70.23 KB / Downloads: 191)

.jpg   moses.jpg (Size: 60.12 KB / Downloads: 192)

Some are shown from behind which might have been the inspiration for VM You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

.jpg   f57v.jpg (Size: 75.59 KB / Downloads: 190)

.jpg   HS151_384_a.jpg (Size: 57.17 KB / Downloads: 190)

.jpg   HS151_398.jpg (Size: 52.68 KB / Downloads: 189)

Headdress closely resembling the VM Sagittarius crossbowman's

.jpg   sagittarius.jpg (Size: 67.59 KB / Downloads: 190)

.jpg   HS151_headdress.jpg (Size: 86.2 KB / Downloads: 191) ]]> <![CDATA[Showing some plant detailing obscured under green paint]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5454.html Mon, 16 Mar 2026 13:31:19 +0000 eggyk]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5454.html
In a similar spirit to oshdfk's processed images, I have processed a few of the plant images in an attempt to see any hidden detailing, or to highlight what is visible to get a better idea of how it looked before the painting process. This focuses on green paint, so the leaves of the plants.

My hunch is that due to such an awful painting job, much of the original detail was lost. This has negatively influenced our opinion on the quality of the drawings, of course. Were they really as bad as they seem now? 

f46v:

.png   image_2026-03-16_131029733.png (Size: 243.99 KB / Downloads: 183)
.png   image_2026-03-16_131049631.png (Size: 144.57 KB / Downloads: 181)

f87v:

.png   image_2026-03-16_131443246.png (Size: 313.74 KB / Downloads: 181)
.png   image_2026-03-16_131414264.png (Size: 178.78 KB / Downloads: 180)

f100r:

.png   image_2026-03-16_132019302.png (Size: 191.14 KB / Downloads: 179)
.png   image_2026-03-16_132104337.png (Size: 119.15 KB / Downloads: 179)

f100v-f101r 1-2:

.png   image_2026-03-16_132519323.png (Size: 222.79 KB / Downloads: 178)
.png   image_2026-03-16_132602994.png (Size: 127.64 KB / Downloads: 177)

.png   image_2026-03-16_132735948.png (Size: 57.46 KB / Downloads: 176)
.png   image_2026-03-16_132809569.png (Size: 33.89 KB / Downloads: 176)

.png   image_2026-03-16_133005550.png (Size: 59.3 KB / Downloads: 176)
.png   image_2026-03-16_133030215.png (Size: 35.04 KB / Downloads: 175)

f40v:

.png   image_2026-03-16_133315357.png (Size: 384.81 KB / Downloads: 175)

.png   image_2026-03-16_133340212.png (Size: 235.9 KB / Downloads: 174)

f8r:

.png   image_2026-03-16_135234436.png (Size: 205.69 KB / Downloads: 173)
.png   image_2026-03-16_135317021.png (Size: 131.16 KB / Downloads: 172)

A common theme between many of these are clearer leaf outlines and clearer leaf stems. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. benefits a lot from this and looks far more inricate than at first glance. Look at the stem that has carefully been drawn behind the spikes of the leaf in front! These look to me to be quite inricate, deliberate details (similar in quality to many of the later pages, the containers etc). It's possible that the darker green paint, or heavier applied green paint has completely removed the previously visible detailing.

Unfortunately, I don't know if further MSI would help in any way, as in every available MSI image, these details aren't really any better than seen here. For example, the MSI image for You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. lacks these details completely. Perhaps a different wavelength would have different results?
On the other hand, the pages chosen for MSI analysis don't appear to be pages with any visible detail anyway, so maybe scans of other pages would actually be quite useful (sometime in the future).]]>
In a similar spirit to oshdfk's processed images, I have processed a few of the plant images in an attempt to see any hidden detailing, or to highlight what is visible to get a better idea of how it looked before the painting process. This focuses on green paint, so the leaves of the plants.

My hunch is that due to such an awful painting job, much of the original detail was lost. This has negatively influenced our opinion on the quality of the drawings, of course. Were they really as bad as they seem now? 

f46v:

.png   image_2026-03-16_131029733.png (Size: 243.99 KB / Downloads: 183)
.png   image_2026-03-16_131049631.png (Size: 144.57 KB / Downloads: 181)

f87v:

.png   image_2026-03-16_131443246.png (Size: 313.74 KB / Downloads: 181)
.png   image_2026-03-16_131414264.png (Size: 178.78 KB / Downloads: 180)

f100r:

.png   image_2026-03-16_132019302.png (Size: 191.14 KB / Downloads: 179)
.png   image_2026-03-16_132104337.png (Size: 119.15 KB / Downloads: 179)

f100v-f101r 1-2:

.png   image_2026-03-16_132519323.png (Size: 222.79 KB / Downloads: 178)
.png   image_2026-03-16_132602994.png (Size: 127.64 KB / Downloads: 177)

.png   image_2026-03-16_132735948.png (Size: 57.46 KB / Downloads: 176)
.png   image_2026-03-16_132809569.png (Size: 33.89 KB / Downloads: 176)

.png   image_2026-03-16_133005550.png (Size: 59.3 KB / Downloads: 176)
.png   image_2026-03-16_133030215.png (Size: 35.04 KB / Downloads: 175)

f40v:

.png   image_2026-03-16_133315357.png (Size: 384.81 KB / Downloads: 175)

.png   image_2026-03-16_133340212.png (Size: 235.9 KB / Downloads: 174)

f8r:

.png   image_2026-03-16_135234436.png (Size: 205.69 KB / Downloads: 173)
.png   image_2026-03-16_135317021.png (Size: 131.16 KB / Downloads: 172)

A common theme between many of these are clearer leaf outlines and clearer leaf stems. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. benefits a lot from this and looks far more inricate than at first glance. Look at the stem that has carefully been drawn behind the spikes of the leaf in front! These look to me to be quite inricate, deliberate details (similar in quality to many of the later pages, the containers etc). It's possible that the darker green paint, or heavier applied green paint has completely removed the previously visible detailing.

Unfortunately, I don't know if further MSI would help in any way, as in every available MSI image, these details aren't really any better than seen here. For example, the MSI image for You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. lacks these details completely. Perhaps a different wavelength would have different results?
On the other hand, the pages chosen for MSI analysis don't appear to be pages with any visible detail anyway, so maybe scans of other pages would actually be quite useful (sometime in the future).]]> <![CDATA[The origin of Fabrizio Salani's "AG" monagram]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5448.html Fri, 13 Mar 2026 14:59:04 +0000 Koen G]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5448.html
I've been doing some digging on the origin of the monogram on the mystery parchment, and after some dead ends, I now believe we should be able to find a printed source. I need a new thread though, since this is a lot to explain and it may require its own investigation.

Tavi found a UK company "Custom Wax N Seals", which offers this design in one of their monogram stamps. I decided to email them, although apparently Fabrizio has been in contact with them before. I received a very polite and helpful response:

  • This design has not been ordered from the company in or before 2013, so the stamp on the parchment definitely did not come from them.
  • They got the design from a book: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., published by Dover in 2004. I see that there is also You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  • I was unable to look inside this book, but one of the angry commenters mentioned that is is basically the same as You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., also published by Dover in 1970.
  • This 1970 publication includes the "Unabridged republication of Monograms and Ciphers by H. Renoir, published by A. Fullarton and Company, London and Edinburgh, 1870-74."
  • It is in this Renoir book that the more angular version of the monogram is found (Style 1 of the UK store). Our exact style (5) is not there.


.jpg   seals4.jpg (Size: 137.7 KB / Downloads: 466)

Some interesting things to note:
  • All are clearly related.
  • The Salani seal is closer overall to the UK "style 5".
  • However, the Renoir monogram letters overlap in the same order as those of the seal.
Therefore, it seems likely that the design of the seal originated after Renoir's publication, but independently from its adoption by the UK company.

It is very likely that the exact seal we're looking for is featured in one of these Dover publications. Since the UK company referred me to the 2004 edition, this or the 2012 edition may be worth tracking down.]]>
I've been doing some digging on the origin of the monogram on the mystery parchment, and after some dead ends, I now believe we should be able to find a printed source. I need a new thread though, since this is a lot to explain and it may require its own investigation.

Tavi found a UK company "Custom Wax N Seals", which offers this design in one of their monogram stamps. I decided to email them, although apparently Fabrizio has been in contact with them before. I received a very polite and helpful response:

  • This design has not been ordered from the company in or before 2013, so the stamp on the parchment definitely did not come from them.
  • They got the design from a book: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., published by Dover in 2004. I see that there is also You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  • I was unable to look inside this book, but one of the angry commenters mentioned that is is basically the same as You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., also published by Dover in 1970.
  • This 1970 publication includes the "Unabridged republication of Monograms and Ciphers by H. Renoir, published by A. Fullarton and Company, London and Edinburgh, 1870-74."
  • It is in this Renoir book that the more angular version of the monogram is found (Style 1 of the UK store). Our exact style (5) is not there.


.jpg   seals4.jpg (Size: 137.7 KB / Downloads: 466)

Some interesting things to note:
  • All are clearly related.
  • The Salani seal is closer overall to the UK "style 5".
  • However, the Renoir monogram letters overlap in the same order as those of the seal.
Therefore, it seems likely that the design of the seal originated after Renoir's publication, but independently from its adoption by the UK company.

It is very likely that the exact seal we're looking for is featured in one of these Dover publications. Since the UK company referred me to the 2004 edition, this or the 2012 edition may be worth tracking down.]]> <![CDATA[Question: Vm vs "Von dem Gang des Himels und Sternen"]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5414.html Mon, 02 Mar 2026 11:26:17 +0000 Tetrahymenix]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5414.html I'm all new here, so please bear over if this issue has already been brought up a million times -  but a search didn't bring it up as existing, 
so I'll jump in both feet and kindly ask this forum for a heads-up on something that puzzles me.

I came across another book, called "Von dem Gang des Himels(sic) und Sternen" [HuS].
It's a German book from the second half of the 15th century, and freely accessible from the Morgan library.
It struck me, how the astrological illustrations are quite reminiscent of the same in the VM - only of higher quality.
I'm aware there are only so many ways you can illustrate an astrological ram, a lion, and say a set of scales, but the two artists in question share a surprising (to me) number of details.
The same paw is lifted, the same shape of tails, the extended tongue of leo, the sane angle on the "libra" scales, the band of stars connecting the pisces together.
There are so many similar details that, for the untrained eye, it would seem the illustrator of the VM simply made an exact (but hasty) copy of the HUS illustrations.
This may of course be a case of random similarity, or a question of one book inspiring the other.

My problem is, two-fold:
The VM was presumably never published to the broad public, so the author(s) of "Himels und Sternen" would not have access to reading it, thus inspiration would likely be in the 
HuS -> Voynich direction.
And this proposes my problem 2: HuS is of a later date than the VM, which puts a spanner in the timing.

It's a little thing, sir... but it bodders me.]]> I'm all new here, so please bear over if this issue has already been brought up a million times -  but a search didn't bring it up as existing, 
so I'll jump in both feet and kindly ask this forum for a heads-up on something that puzzles me.

I came across another book, called "Von dem Gang des Himels(sic) und Sternen" [HuS].
It's a German book from the second half of the 15th century, and freely accessible from the Morgan library.
It struck me, how the astrological illustrations are quite reminiscent of the same in the VM - only of higher quality.
I'm aware there are only so many ways you can illustrate an astrological ram, a lion, and say a set of scales, but the two artists in question share a surprising (to me) number of details.
The same paw is lifted, the same shape of tails, the extended tongue of leo, the sane angle on the "libra" scales, the band of stars connecting the pisces together.
There are so many similar details that, for the untrained eye, it would seem the illustrator of the VM simply made an exact (but hasty) copy of the HUS illustrations.
This may of course be a case of random similarity, or a question of one book inspiring the other.

My problem is, two-fold:
The VM was presumably never published to the broad public, so the author(s) of "Himels und Sternen" would not have access to reading it, thus inspiration would likely be in the 
HuS -> Voynich direction.
And this proposes my problem 2: HuS is of a later date than the VM, which puts a spanner in the timing.

It's a little thing, sir... but it bodders me.]]> <![CDATA[The ice cube on f102v]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5406.html Fri, 27 Feb 2026 13:51:03 +0000 JustAnotherTheory]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5406.html Register or Login to view. one can see a curious object placed between several plants:


.png   qsdqsdqq.png (Size: 294.1 KB / Downloads: 262)

It seems out of place. I will call it "the ice cube". What could it be? Are there any occurrences of similar ice cubes in medieval herbalia?

I've searched for the label written above it (EVA okeos), and there are several matches in the zodiac section:


.png   azeazeazeazeaze.png (Size: 218.62 KB / Downloads: 260)

What could it be?]]> Register or Login to view. one can see a curious object placed between several plants:


.png   qsdqsdqq.png (Size: 294.1 KB / Downloads: 262)

It seems out of place. I will call it "the ice cube". What could it be? Are there any occurrences of similar ice cubes in medieval herbalia?

I've searched for the label written above it (EVA okeos), and there are several matches in the zodiac section:


.png   azeazeazeazeaze.png (Size: 218.62 KB / Downloads: 260)

What could it be?]]> <![CDATA[Brescia Queriniana ms B.V.24]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5402.html Tue, 24 Feb 2026 11:38:57 +0000 Juan_Sali]]> https://www.voynich.ninja/thread-5402.html Register or Login to view. was mentioned by MarcoP You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Image 181 is interesting vs VMS f33v.

.jpg   merge_from_ofoct v2.jpg (Size: 1,003.72 KB / Downloads: 223)
The bottom left corner of the ms. B.V.24 is similar to the roots of the VMS f33v.
It is labelled as  hba stela (star herb).]]> Register or Login to view. was mentioned by MarcoP You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Image 181 is interesting vs VMS f33v.

.jpg   merge_from_ofoct v2.jpg (Size: 1,003.72 KB / Downloads: 223)
The bottom left corner of the ms. B.V.24 is similar to the roots of the VMS f33v.
It is labelled as  hba stela (star herb).]]>