+- The Voynich Ninja (https://www.voynich.ninja)
+-- Forum: Voynich Research (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-27.html)
+--- Forum: Imagery (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-43.html)
+--- Thread: Swallowtail merlons... or provenance (/thread-92.html)
Swallowtail merlons... or provenance - david - 09-01-2016
An undeveloped idea, and I only summarise the two arguments here below.
Nick Pelling has suggested that the castle merlons on the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. are in the Northern Italian medieval "swallow-tail" style - ie, instead of being in the traditional |-| shape, they're in a V shape.
This has helped to shift the production area for the manuscript away from northern Europe to northern Italy instead.
However, the zodiac influence has once again shifted attention back to northern Europe, in particular the French / German border, based on identification of artistic influences from regional calendar and printing in the Voynich (a brief overview You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.).
So - leaving aside the question of the humanistic cursive script, which in any case appears to have been used all over Europe - how do we reconcile the contradictions?
Well, it strikes me the swallow-tail identification isn't really 100%. For a start, every merlon on that page is swallow-tail - see this You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., or this You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
Surely the simplest explanation here is that, due to the small size of the script, the scribe simply drew the merlons in this fashion without paying any attention to real architecture. After all, why should he have paid any attention to this real life detail, unless it was something important? Far more likely the author wanted to display the merlons to show he was drawing a castle, and simply drew it in this style without even being aware of the difference.
Which means - we can shift the provenance back to northern Europe again.
RE: Swallowtail merlons... or provenance - Anton - 09-01-2016
I also thought about it. Indeed, the point is that all merlons are of this kind. This can mean one of the two things:
1) The author depicted real-life objects with ghibelline merlons exclusively. This means, in turn, that the wall cannot be the wall of China etc. In other words, the Rosettes folio is not the map of the world.
OR
2) The ghibelline merlons were so commonplace for the author that he really did not bother about other kinds of merlons.
If we adopt the view #2, then the question arises why were the ghibelline merlons commonplace for the author, and not some other kinds of merlons? Probably, because at the time of drawing, the author lived in the place with ghibelline merlons, so his notion of commonlace merlons was shaped (at that time of his life) by those swallow-tails.
The very notion of "provenance" is somewhat unsteady in this case. In those days, learned people often travelled between various universities, abbeys and/or courts. The author may have originated from Northern Europe, or Spain, or wherever, but at the time of creation of this map he lived in some place with such merlons.
I am a bit confused though about why everyone repeats "Northern Italy" over again. As far as I know, swallow-tail merlons in 15c were observed not only in Italy, but also in the territories of modern Germany, Switzerland and Austria.
I also remember Diane arguing that this merlon shape is encountered somewhere in Persia or something like that. Either case, it is not Italy-exclusive, is it?
EDIT:
Another interesting possibility is that by depicting all merlons as ghibelline ones the author wished to implicitly declare himself as a ghibelline.
RE: Swallowtail merlons... or provenance - david - 10-01-2016
Well, there is a third option:
The small scale of the drawings simply meant that it was far easier to draw merlons in a "v" shape than the three stroke |-| shape.
If the artist attached no importance to the merlons - and why should he? - then would he even have consciously made the decision, in such a small space?
To put it another way: was the artist depicting a stylistic interpretation of "a" castle, versus the realistic depiction of "that" castle?
Given that all the merlons are depicted in the same way, irrespective of the structure they sit upon, I suggest it's the latter - the artist simply drew them like that because of the lack of space, and possibly of understanding.
RE: Swallowtail merlons... or provenance - Anton - 10-01-2016
In any case he must have been aware of the very existence of v-shapes in nature. If you have never seen v-shaped castle walls, you will not draw them, to begin with, - even by way of abstraction.
I once consulted the famous atlas of the cities of the world - the first of the kind. I forgot who was his author, but sure you understand what I mean. It is later that the VMS and, by the way, not very useful, because some pictures of the cities are quite imaginary, and some cities have the same images for themselves.
What matters (and what interested me), v-shapes were very rare in there.
RE: Swallowtail merlons... or provenance - david - 10-01-2016
TBH, it's a top of the mind thought and I haven't even started delving into the imagery.
I shall shelve this little project whilst developing my lapidary theory.
RE: Swallowtail merlons... or provenance - Anton - 10-01-2016
I tried to detect what atlas I was referring to and failed so far
All I can say at the moment that it was not Civitates orbis terrarum.The book (15 or 16 century, I think) was printed, black and white and showed cities' panorams (not maps).
RE: Swallowtail merlons... or provenance - david - 10-01-2016
That rings a bell, with search through my books later to see if I can find the reference.
RE: Swallowtail merlons... or provenance - juergenw - 10-01-2016
Nuremberg Chronicles?
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: Swallowtail merlons... or provenance - Anton - 11-01-2016
Looks like that, thx Juergen. Only it was some b&w edition.
RE: Swallowtail merlons... or provenance - david - 11-01-2016
Ah yes.
This book also has a human crossbowman acting in the Zodiac as Sagittarius, as I You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..