(16-09-2016, 01:42 PM)farmerjohn Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.farmerjohnHello everybody once again.

I have some ideas concerning VM and was advised to start separate thread. I'll try to describe them briefly.
First of all the map from Voynich to Latin (* stands for any vowel sequence):

o - v, y, b, u
e - c, t, g
y - com-, con-, -is, -us

This is usually com-/con-, -cum/-cun and sometimes -us/-os ("-is" is described by a different character, the loop with ascender).

d - l
ch - e*r 
l - m, n
k - d
r - r, -rum

If you mean the r with a tail, it is not usually -rum. More often it is -er or -re. The most common -rum symbol is like a flourished number 4.

n - (none)
t - l*l
[font=Eva]q[/font] - q, k
[font=Eva]sh[/font] - pr, fr
[font=Eva]s[/font] - s, x

If you mean Eva-s (the c with a tail), in Latin that is usually -ur or -tur (and sometimes other things, depending on context).

p[font=Arial] [/font][font=Arial]- p, f[/font]
m - ris, rus
cth - l*l*r
[font=Eva][font=Eva]ckh[/font] - d*r[/font]
f[font=Arial] [/font][font=Arial]- s[/font]
[font=Eva][font=Eva]cfh[/font] [/font]- f*r
g[font=Arial] [/font][font=Arial]- lis, lus[/font]
x[font=Arial] [/font][font=Arial]- z[/font]

[font=Arial]In latin, -cis -ris and -tis are expressed by the character that resembles a "j" with the angles (or their lack) denoting the difference between them. All three shapes can be found in the VMS.

ai[/font]-family are vowels

Second hypothesis: words with gallow in front are capitalized, others are not. So,
a) if a word starts with gallow, but shouldn't be capitalized, o is written in front (that's why texts near images often start with o)
b) if a word starts with non-gallow, but should be capitalized, gallow is written in front.

Separate words undoubtedley can be translated with this key. For example, famous daiin appears to be form of Latin ille.
More specific details can be found in attachment.
Cheers

(16-09-2016, 07:12 PM)farmerjohn Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.3) o is the most obvious one for me. v and b are undoubtedly related, u and y go with them. I guess (don't laugh) that [font=Eva]o comes from Greek omega and [/font]is mostly pronounced [w]. So oror from last page may be something like [warwarum]. c is connected to g from one side, and to t from another. f-ph-p is yet another chain. If it's really Latin and daiin is most frequent word then d is obviously l. r, l appear among most frequent endings. Difficult to imagine r to be other letter than r, so l is obviously m/n. And yes, m and n go together in all abbreviations I've seen. For k I had a choice between d and r and even dr. When d translations are more adequate. What I really like in this key is that it is absolutely natural and allow to find translation for most of words.

(16-09-2016, 07:27 PM)Emma May Smith Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(16-09-2016, 07:12 PM)farmerjohn Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.3) o is the most obvious one for me. v and b are undoubtedly related, u and y go with them. I guess (don't laugh) that [font=Eva]o comes from Greek omega and [/font]is mostly pronounced [w]. So oror from last page may be something like [warwarum]. c is connected to g from one side, and to t from another. f-ph-p is yet another chain. If it's really Latin and daiin is most frequent word then d is obviously l. r, l appear among most frequent endings. Difficult to imagine r to be other letter than r, so l is obviously m/n. And yes, m and n go together in all abbreviations I've seen. For k I had a choice between d and r and even dr. When d translations are more adequate. What I really like in this key is that it is absolutely natural and allow to find translation for most of words.

I still don't know how you reached the value for each character.

It seems as though some values were proposed based on the shape of the Voynich character and its similarity to existing scripts: so [o] and [r] are based on what they look like in Greek and Latin respectively.

Otherwise they were based on the output of the text once the value was applied: [daiin] should be 'illi' because the language is Latin and you were seeking a frequent word.

Can you tell me how you discovered the text was in Latin?

Quote:Anton, if I recall formula for entropy correctly, when we decrease number of possibilities, entropy also decreases.

(16-09-2016, 07:57 PM)farmerjohn Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(16-09-2016, 07:27 PM)Emma May Smith Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(16-09-2016, 07:12 PM)farmerjohn Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.3) o is the most obvious one for me. v and b are undoubtedly related, u and y go with them. I guess (don't laugh) that [font=Eva]o comes from Greek omega and [/font]is mostly pronounced [w]. So oror from last page may be something like [warwarum]. c is connected to g from one side, and to t from another. f-ph-p is yet another chain. If it's really Latin and daiin is most frequent word then d is obviously l. r, l appear among most frequent endings. Difficult to imagine r to be other letter than r, so l is obviously m/n. And yes, m and n go together in all abbreviations I've seen. For k I had a choice between d and r and even dr. When d translations are more adequate. What I really like in this key is that it is absolutely natural and allow to find translation for most of words.

I still don't know how you reached the value for each character.

It seems as though some values were proposed based on the shape of the Voynich character and its similarity to existing scripts: so [o] and [r] are based on what they look like in Greek and Latin respectively.

Otherwise they were based on the output of the text once the value was applied: [daiin] should be 'illi' because the language is Latin and you were seeking a frequent word.

Can you tell me how you discovered the text was in Latin?

That was a long and painful way
To be serious, one day I asked myself what if q is really q (both occur always* in the beginning of the word)? Then o, which always* follows q, is u(v) and language is probably Latin or English. As frequenly noted by -JKP- there are a lot of abbreviations from medieval Latin and the author certainly knew Latin very well. So should be Latin. Ok. Great. But o is u/v? Ha-ha.
Then another day I found word which would have acceptable meaning, if o is u/v. That was striking for me. Later I wrote computer program that uses Whitaker's great dictionary and finds proper translations for Voynich word. And the key converged to its present state.
Of course amateur with no proper knowledge has a little chance, but when your key produces "petresillum" for plant from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and "cunila" for plant from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. it gives you tiny hope

*almost

(16-09-2016, 07:57 PM)farmerjohn Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(16-09-2016, 07:27 PM)Emma May Smith Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....

Can you tell me how you discovered the text was in Latin?

That was a long and painful way
To be serious, one day I asked myself what if q is really q (both occur always* in the beginning of the word)? Then o, which always* follows q, is u(v) and language is probably Latin or English. As frequenly noted by -JKP- there are a lot of abbreviations from medieval Latin and the author certainly knew Latin very well. So should be Latin. Ok. Great. But o is u/v? Ha-ha.