+- The Voynich Ninja (https://www.voynich.ninja)
+-- Forum: Voynich Research (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-27.html)
+--- Forum: Provenance & history (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-44.html)
+--- Thread: numbers like 1498 1489 (/thread-706.html)
numbers like 1498 1489 - Davidsch - 30-08-2016
Just a thought, remember the ciphers of Roger Bacon, where he used to hide his name in his text?
I was fiddling with the most used characters in the VMS and there are several characters that can be seen which could represent numbers.
They are:
oiydql = oiydql
and there is the ^ but that is is not a very "active" symbol.
The possible combinations which then result in 4 numbers on
o
i
y
d
q
l
are 360 in total.
For all see You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
And enter the above, and use : Generate objects into combinations of 4 and then repeats: NO
Which will produce 360 combinations. Possible numbers could be 1489 / 1498
Could this number represent and event, or the year the ms was made ?
Read also this thread about 1493: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Then the other characters used could represent a name , perhaps the author of the ms.
Last but not least, only 3 characters are needed to describe the 72 hidden names of IHS in a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: numbers like 1498 1489 - Anton - 30-08-2016
1489 - don't know
1498 - Columbus is exploring America, and in Italy they hanged Savonarola
***
I have a vague suspicion that two-glyph sequences like ar, or or on might represent some basic natural numbers.
RE: numbers like 1498 1489 - Davidsch - 30-08-2016
From the measured 8733 results where o is on first position these are the letters and their percentages that follow it:
[attachment=510]
RE: numbers like 1498 1489 - matthewK - 30-08-2016
Numbers must also follow Zipf's laws. In a document, the number one will appear about 30% of the time. It is a red flag for financial fraud for numbers in a report to violate that rule.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
The idea that there is alphanumeric system in the manuscript would also throw weight behind a Hebrew based language, unless they are also common in Latin and German. I don't know.
RE: numbers like 1498 1489 - -JKP- - 30-08-2016
The leaning r shape is a common Latin abbreviation. It is sometimes written as the VMS scribe writes it (so it looks a bit more like an r) but also frequently written with slightly more of a lean so that it resembles the number 2 which means you could potentially add it to your list of glyphs that resemble numbers.
There aren't really that many unusual glyphs in the VMS, considering the time frame. Even gallows characters resemble P and H shapes and the figure-8 glyph resembles both an i and a closed Greek-style terminal "s" (which was commonly used instead of other "s" shapes up until the end of the 14th century). The curled back tails may seem unfamiliar to modern eyes but were very common in medieval scripts. What's unusual about the VMS character set is not so much their shapes but how they are ordered and combined.
RE: numbers like 1498 1489 - ThomasCoon - 30-08-2016
(30-08-2016, 06:53 PM)!matthewK Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Numbers must also follow Zipf's laws. In a document, the number one will appear about 30% of the time. It is a red flag for financial fraud for numbers in a report to violate that rule.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
The idea that there is alphanumeric system in the manuscript would also throw weight behind a Hebrew based language, unless they are also common in Latin and German. I don't know.
German does not have a "letter=number" system. Latin has Roman numerals (I, II, III, IV etc.) and there was also a letter-to-number system in the middle ages: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
And that is interesting about Zipf's law with numbers. It makes sense with a base-10 system!
RE: numbers like 1498 1489 - Davidsch - 31-08-2016
In many languages numbers can be represented by a single letter.
In those languages it also often happens that the name for the single letter, has limited characters.
The name of such a single letter, or number, often has multiple meanings: number, character, tree (rune), sacred day (hebr), day before sacred day.
Number systems of the world: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. or You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Look for example at the numbers in Syloti Nagri. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
they look a lot like the VMS script