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The fifth gallow? - Printable Version

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The fifth gallow? - ololololo - 07-07-2026

This unique symbol appears in the text several times, but it seems to me that given this number of appearances, it can't be called "unique".
   
   
   


There were also his appearances in botany, but I couldn't find them. Most often, there is no additional loop (as in the first two screenshots). 
Outwardly, it looks vaguely like an f with a second leg, but I think that's not the case, because we already have an f with a second leg:
   

What do you think?

RE: The fifth gallow? - oshfdk - 07-07-2026

(Yesterday, 05:10 PM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This unique symbol appears in the text several times, but it seems to me that given this number of appearances, it can't be called "unique".

I'd call them unique. To me all three examples you have shown look substantially different from one another. The third one topologically is the same as normal f with an additional bend. Top two look like f with double legs, the top one with an extra loop.

RE: The fifth gallow? - Koen G - 07-07-2026

I made an overview of such cases in this thread You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

The ones you picked out are all scribe 1. Like oshfkd says, they are all different. Whether they are meant as the same kind of thing or variations of common gallows is unclear, though I prefer the latter.

RE: The fifth gallow? - ololololo - 07-07-2026

(Yesterday, 06:13 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I made an overview of such cases in this thread You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

The ones you picked out are all scribe 1. Like oshfkd says, they are all different. Whether they are meant as the same kind of thing or variations of common gallows is unclear, though I prefer the latter.
A very interesting thread!
But in my opinion, all the "wonderful" gallows can be divided into capital ones (and not take them into account, because, as for me, they are of no interest) and decorated ones, which are also of no interest and easy to identify. 
Firstly, the glyph shape of the fifth gallows occurs several times (I did not mention all the cases in the post). It also seems to be stable and similar to each other and it doesn't look like a "decorated" f. Using the examples in your thread, you can see that often an additional leg comes from the tail. The writing of this glyph, apparently, comes from the left leg, and the right one comes out after the upper loop.
(Yesterday, 05:43 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(Yesterday, 05:10 PM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This unique symbol appears in the text several times, but it seems to me that given this number of appearances, it can't be called "unique".

I'd call them unique. To me all three examples you have shown look substantially different from one another. The third one topologically is the same as normal f with an additional bend. Top two look like f with double legs, the top one with an extra loop.
The examples I haven't taken into account look the same as the third one (which is on the pedestal), the first two are not particularly successful.

RE: The fifth gallow? - oshfdk - 07-07-2026

(Yesterday, 07:27 PM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The examples I haven't taken into account look the same as the third one (which is on the pedestal), the first two are not particularly successful.

I don't know which ones you are referring to, can you show them? I've seen a nice chart of all strange gallows a few years ago (maybe by Wladimir D, but I'm not sure), I think most of them looked unique one way or the other.

RE: The fifth gallow? - ololololo - 07-07-2026

(Yesterday, 07:31 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(Yesterday, 07:27 PM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The examples I haven't taken into account look the same as the third one (which is on the pedestal), the first two are not particularly successful.

I don't know which ones you are referring to, can you show them? I've seen a nice chart of all strange gallows a few years ago (maybe by Wladimir D, but I'm not sure), I think most of them looked unique one way or the other.
Unfortunately, it will not be possible to show these examples Confused I looked at voynichese.com and I couldn't find them. But I remember that the same gallows was in the botanical section, in the second word after the "plant name". But I may have imagined it...

RE: The fifth gallow? - Jorge_Stolfi - 08-07-2026

(Yesterday, 05:10 PM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.What do you think?

In general, I think that the "puffs" p and f, like the more ornate page-initial gallows, are just fancy versions of other glyphs or diglyphs.  Then differences between puffs would not be significant, as long as they stand for the same "plain" glyph.

But if the details are significant, then I would say that only two of those four examples (the first two) can be the same glyph; and only if, on the first one, we ignore the loop at the end of the horizontal arm, and we assume that the both legs are bent (instead of one being straight and the other crossing it).

All the best, --stolfi