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+--- Thread: Zodiac Imagery: Manuscript Collection/Discussion (/thread-5874.html)
Zodiac Imagery: Manuscript Collection/Discussion - eggyk - 05-07-2026
Hello all,
As many of the manuscripts being logged for the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. thread include calendars, I have created a sheet to log all of the instances of zodiac imagery within the manuscripts that have been found (zodiacs are often found near calendars). It was becoming more and more difficult to find and remember which entries were interesting as the list grew. My hope is to use this thread as a home base for myself and others who wish to collate, compare and discuss that imagery and their sequencing in general. I hope that with enough sequences, we may be able to start talking statistically about the general dating and location of the sequence based on general trends, similar to what has begun to happen with the month names.
More specifically, this thread is about the generalisation and categorisation of sequences and styles across digitised manuscripts in order to come to a better understanding of what was standard, along with when/where. It is also to permanently catalogue the exact sources along with their context (the whole sequence, the use case, the location, the language, the handwriting, connected works), so that future efforts may be able to analyse them. Hopefully, we will be able to compare those trends and patterns (if they exist) with the sequence found in the VMS, perhaps quantitatively, probably subjectively.
Finding connected works or patterns may also help in locating more examples. For instance, if we know voynichy lions accompany works on bloodletting, searching out bloodletting works may lead us to voynichy lions.
I'm aware that many previous threads discussing various aspects of the VMS zodiacs exist like You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and that previous collections of imagery exist. The issue is that many/most of the sources for the imagery in those threads are no longer easily findable, the data sometimes not easily usable (or full of dead links), often with discussions that are now years untouched. This spreadsheet and thread are intended as a continuation of that work, while collecting and archiving the sources in a different way.
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The sheet
Link: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
The sheet 'Imagery Categorisation' contains headers for each zodiac symbol, with colour codes to show which symbols are within each source. There are also headers for 'labours of the months', 'planetary imagery' (normally the planets personified and depicted with zodiac symbols), and a catch all 'other' for other interesting/relevant imagery.
Unlike the month names, this sheet does not set out to score the sequences (yet), only to collect them. If we can work out a way in the future to score the "voynichy-ness" of the sequences, we can use the data collected here to do so.
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This thread can also serve as a place for people to post/cite instances of medieval zodiac imagery, especially in cases where the imagery is not interesting enough on its own to merit a seperate thread. So please feel free to post examples, preferably including the following info so they can be added easily:
-Title + Manuscript reference/number
-Link(s)
-Contents (what is in the source and where)
For searchability, detailed references are better - "Universitätsbibliothek Leipzig, Ms 34" instead of just "Ms 34".
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Understandably, many of the manuscript examples in this spreadsheet were already seperately found numerous times, and their zodiac imagery posted across those previous threads. If anyone still has repositories of zodiac imagery and are happy for me to try and log them in this way (preferably with the original manuscript source or a potential way to find it), please share! I am happy to go through and do some digging on dates, locations and other info for the manuscripts. And again, I apologise that this will almost certainly cover already covered ground at various points; I appreciate a lot of work has been done already.
As of the writing of this post, there are only ~60 manuscripts containing zodiac imagery logged on the spreadsheet out of the ~350 entries i've gone through so far. There are currently around another 200 for me to go through and check which I will do over the next day or so.
RE: Zodiac Imagery: Manuscript Collection/Discussion - R. Sale - 05-07-2026
I must not be seeing things correctly? Are you using You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
There are a number of calendar + zodiac combinations.
Some years back @-JKP- had an extensive zodiac collection in a blog.
Your chart has green-lighted Gemini as being 'twins' on the model of Castor and Pollux, but this is in contrast with the VMs Gemini medallion. Gemini is an example which presents with two different representations. It is either the twins or it is the 'hieros gamos', - the sacred marriage, if you will, the pairing of complementary opposites. The VMs illustration is a heterosexual couple and well clothed - compared to not infrequently when they were depicted as nudes.
VMs Gemini presents the same sort of two-factor selectivity found in VMs Sagittarius. VMs Gemini is heterosexual and clothed; VMs Sagittarius is human with a crossbow.
Though not relevant to the VMs, Capricorn also has different representations. It's either half goat and half fish, or it's just an ibex. Here again both are valid alternatives with different origins.
RE: Zodiac Imagery: Manuscript Collection/Discussion - eggyk - 05-07-2026
(05-07-2026, 05:58 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I must not be seeing things correctly? Are you using You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
There are a number of calendar + zodiac combinations.
If they are latin calendars, they probably did not go onto the month name list (yet) and so were not in the dataset i'm starting with. Either that or the meta-libraries handschriften portal/census +biblissima/Jonas did not lead to many examples from that library, for some reason.
(05-07-2026, 05:58 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Your chart has green-lighted Gemini as being 'twins' on the model of Castor and Pollux, but this is in contrast with the VMs Gemini medallion. Gemini is an example which presents with two different representations. It is either the twins or it is the 'hieros gamos', - the sacred marriage, if you will, the pairing of complementary opposites. The VMs illustration is a heterosexual couple and well clothed - compared to not infrequently when they were depicted as nudes.
VMs Gemini presents the same sort of two-factor selectivity found in VMs Sagittarius. VMs Gemini is heterosexual and clothed; VMs Sagittarius is human with a crossbow.
Though not relevant to the VMs, Capricorn also has different representations. It's either half goat and half fish, or it's just an ibex. Here again both are valid alternatives with different origins.
Green lighted gemini is any symbol that represents gemini. I put "twins" because "twins" helps me remember, and is far shorter than "two people, either twins or spouses or opposites". Same for capricorn, all depictions are green lighted because green just means "is in the manuscript".
RE: Zodiac Imagery: Manuscript Collection/Discussion - Pierre Dumont Himself - 05-07-2026
Are you guys looking for any zodiac imagery or something more specific?
RE: Zodiac Imagery: Manuscript Collection/Discussion - Koen G - 05-07-2026
This will be a good tool.
For the zodiac signs, I am planning to keep tackling them one by one, to avoid one good sign influencing the perception on the others. We did the bulls some time ago, and should probably do another one soon.
The procedure is to start with a few properties, then see what's actually useful as you check more manuscripts. And what can be added etc.
I feel like this worked pretty well for the bulls You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I'm kind of feeling like doing Virgo next, there may be some things to learn there. But we can do something else also if you like
RE: Zodiac Imagery: Manuscript Collection/Discussion - eggyk - 05-07-2026
(05-07-2026, 08:42 PM)Pierre Dumont Himself Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Are you guys looking for any zodiac imagery or something more specific?
I'm logging any zodiac sequence, partial sequence, or anything else. Even if they are not voynichy. Much preferably from digitised manuscripts (so the links/location of the images will persist into the future). They can also be from anywhere, in any language manuscript. And obviously ~1600AD at the latest.
Voynichy or notable examples are also very welcome, both to log and to discuss
RE: Zodiac Imagery: Manuscript Collection/Discussion - Pierre Dumont Himself - 05-07-2026
Here are all the zodiac depictions I've come across while looking for swallowtail merlons. Let me know if you find anything useful in there.
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RE: Zodiac Imagery: Manuscript Collection/Discussion - eggyk - 05-07-2026
(05-07-2026, 09:11 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I feel like this worked pretty well for the bulls You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I'm kind of feeling like doing Virgo next, there may be some things to learn there. But we can do something else also if you like
Thanks
Long term, I was thinking about making a set of sheets almost exactly like that bull spreadsheet! It's probably also feasible to incorporate those total individual scores into a full sequence scoring sheet eventually. That way the individual zodiac symbols could be independently rated as complicatedly/simply as we like, while also having them contribute to full sequence scores.
In any case, I think there may be value in analysing all of the "low interest" entries too; things that are not noteworthy for one entry can become a notable trend when it's for 100.
(05-07-2026, 10:05 PM)Pierre Dumont Himself Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Here are all the zodiac depictions I've come across while looking for swallowtail merlons. Let me know if you find anything useful in there.
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TY! I was able to add the two zodiac wheels from venice.
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Edit: And the mozaic too:You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: Zodiac Imagery: Manuscript Collection/Discussion - R. Sale - 05-07-2026
The bulls investigation set a standard that should be applied to the rest of the VMs Zodiac. Good information has been found for some zodiac houses, such as Sagittarius, but needs to be organized, *rated*, and cataloged. Other houses haven't been discussed for a while. Opening multiple threads will speed up the process.
For a Virgo comparison, it's going to take something to beat the Virgo of Prague. It's her hat.
With a TOP 10 list for each of the VMs zodiac signs, the provenance information could be comparatively mapped and dated. Potential groupings might result.