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Catalan Zodiac Rose S.XV - Printable Version

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Catalan Zodiac Rose S.XV - quimqu - 11-08-2025

Hello all,

I am not very aware of the astronomical and astrological part of the MS (I am mostly centered in the text analyse). But I found one Astrological rose, in catalan, dated from the XV century, that attracted my attention:
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[Image: lcNCL4M.jpeg]

There is not a lot of information about the manuscript, which is written in catalan. What interests me, are the writtings in the center of the rose: look how they repeat some characters. Names are also interesting, mixing catalan and latin. The text (paragraphs) of the other pages area also interesting.

Here the link: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

As I have not studied yet the astronomical/astrological part of the Voynich I would like to read your thoughts about it. As I live next to Barcelona, I could even go and check the whole manuscript, if they let me.

Looking forward to reading your thoughts.

RE: Catalan Zodiac Rose S.XV - oshfdk - 11-08-2025

Looks interesting, but I can't understand most of it. The inner circle are numbers 1-30 (this way of writing V as upside down a looks interesting), then planets (domiciles?), Zodiac signs, then what? Lunar mansions? And what is the next ring with some star patterns?

Edit: as for whether this could be connected to the VMS, I'm not sure there are any specific parallels. While I don't understand all the items on this chart, it looks quite similar to many other calendar/astrological charts in many manuscripts, and quite different from what I see in the Voynich MS. I see no particular similarities.

RE: Catalan Zodiac Rose S.XV - BessAgritianin - 12-08-2025

This represents Calendrical system for moon  mansions.

I think that there is a direct structural and linguistic correspondence to VM f67r1.
My translation accessible at: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
In Voynich Foil 67r1 second part I have provided the names of the stars, read in the innermost circle of the diagram of VM.
VM starts with Aquarius- Catalan Zodiac has number 1 to Aquarius too.
Just at a first glance: 
The stellar nomenclature exhibits similarities to Catalan zodiac.
Example: 
Aquarius: 
VM: Al Ahbia , Archeor    ------    Catalan Zodiac: saral ahabia, sar hason.

BR: Vessy

RE: Catalan Zodiac Rose S.XV - BessAgritianin - 12-08-2025

Do you know the translation of "sar" or "sat" from the following words:
Could it stand for "star"?

RE: Catalan Zodiac Rose S.XV - ReneZ - 12-08-2025

Referring to the traditional names of the moon mansions in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., the words in this illustration roughly correspond with the traditional names if one starts at 11:30 and goes counter-clockwise.

Some comparison are better than others. I did not check all.
I dare not make any guess what language this would be.

RE: Catalan Zodiac Rose S.XV - quimqu - 12-08-2025

(12-08-2025, 03:17 AM)BessAgritianin Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Do you know the translation of "sar" or "sat" from the following words:
Could it stand for "star"?
No, sorry, the book (the other pages available) is written in Catalan but the moon mansions seem to have strange names, at least, names that I don't understand.

In catalan star i estrella or estel, but as the moon mansions seem not to be in common catalan... who knows?

RE: Catalan Zodiac Rose S.XV - quimqu - 12-08-2025

(11-08-2025, 09:28 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The inner circle are numbers 1-30 (this way of writing V as upside down a looks interesting)

I see. It is strange that the numbers are written from right to left instead of from left to right. I mean, for example, IIIX for XIII, or IIIVXX for XXVIII.

(12-08-2025, 05:16 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Referring to the traditional names of the moon mansions in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., the words in this illustration roughly correspond with the traditional names if one starts at 11:30 and goes counter-clockwise.

Some comparison are better than others. I did not check all.
I dare not make any guess what language this would be.

Yes, the names of the moon mansons do not correspond fully to the ones in your link (some of them ressemble).

There are a few other scanned pages of the manuscript. Here you can see them. According to what is seen by transparency of the human body page, there are tables and plenty of other pages. Text is written in catalan. What I can read, talks about recipies (for example for cheese making) tricks, and links about the moon and the body.

I think it has not much in common with the Voynich but I am curious to check what is in the other pages ... just if we can have some clues of it content.

[Image: mRNpPtB.png]

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RE: Catalan Zodiac Rose S.XV - Mauro - 12-08-2025

(12-08-2025, 09:12 AM)quimqu Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I see. It is strange that the numbers are written from right to left instead of from left to right. I mean, for example, IIIX for XIII, or IIIVXX for XXVIII.

They are written normally if you look at them from the other side (what seems to be an 'a' at first glance is a 'v', looking from the other side).

RE: Catalan Zodiac Rose S.XV - quimqu - 12-08-2025

(12-08-2025, 09:21 AM)Mauro Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(12-08-2025, 09:12 AM)quimqu Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I see. It is strange that the numbers are written from right to left instead of from left to right. I mean, for example, IIIX for XIII, or IIIVXX for XXVIII.

They are written normally if you look at them from the other side (what seems to be an 'a' at first glance is a 'v', looking from the other side).

Right! It's the way of writting iii that looks like m that makes this effect. Thank you!

RE: Catalan Zodiac Rose S.XV - bi3mw - 12-08-2025

(12-08-2025, 09:12 AM)quimqu Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I think it has not much in common with the Voynich but I am curious to check what is in the other pages ... just if we can have some clues of it content.
   
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.


On the other page, it is probably about chiromancy (palmistry).
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