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+--- Thread: Extended EVA &163 (/thread-475.html)
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Extended EVA &163 - Anton - 16-03-2016
There is the "arc" symbol in the VMS represented as extended EVA &163. (There is also &140, I'm not sure what's the difference between the two, but it seems that &163 is the one I am referring to).
It is quite rare, but it is encountered, for example, three times in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in the "index" column to the left.
This symbol is quite attractive for the analysis purposes in that it is clearly a single symbol, and not any combination/superposition of simpler symbols.
What makes this symbol extremely interesting is that it is used as a standalone label in f80r: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
So: either this stands for a number (why would a number be associated with this object?)
Or: this stands for a one-character word (could those who explore the language hypothesis advise whether any languages, besides hieroglyphic-based, have one-letter nouns?)
Or: the cipher is encoding a multi-letter word into a single character of the ciphertext.
What do you think?
RE: Extended EVA &163 - -JKP- - 16-03-2016
(16-03-2016, 10:07 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There is the "arc" symbol in the VMS represented as extended EVA &163. (There is also &140, I'm not sure what's the difference between the two, but it seems that &163 is the one I am referring to).
It is quite rare, but it is encountered, for example, three times in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in the "index" column to the left.
This symbol is quite attractive for the analysis purposes in that it is clearly a single symbol, and not any combination/superposition of simpler symbols.
What makes this symbol extremely interesting is that it is used as a standalone label in f80r: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
So: either this stands for a number (why would a number be associated with this object?)
Or: this stands for a one-character word (could those who explore the language hypothesis advise whether any languages, besides hieroglyphic-based, have one-letter nouns?)
Or: the cipher is encoding a multi-letter word into a single character of the ciphertext.
What do you think?
It could be an initial or abbreviation.
It could be the start of a drawing that was abandoned and then redrawn further to the right to leave more room for text.
It could be a mistake.
RE: Extended EVA &163 - ReneZ - 17-03-2016
According to my notes, the Eva character &140; is found in the second line of f18v:
qoeees . or . oaiin . shy&140; .
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For the rest I would need to look at home.
RE: Extended EVA &163 - Wladimir D - 17-03-2016
Many of the characters may change storey (position in a row), so I see this symbol (code 163) as the apostrophe having descended to the line.
RE: Extended EVA &163 - Helmut Winkler - 17-03-2016
(16-03-2016, 10:07 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There is the "arc" symbol in the VMS represented as extended EVA &163. (There is also &140, I'm not sure what's the difference between the two, but it seems that &163 is the one I am referring to).The arc symbol is used again and again and most likely denotes an abbreviation, similar to the horizontal stroke. No insult meant, but all of you should read the Cappelli introduction some time.
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RE: Extended EVA &163 - Anton - 17-03-2016
(17-03-2016, 10:20 AM)Helmut Winkler Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(16-03-2016, 10:07 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There is the "arc" symbol in the VMS represented as extended EVA &163. (There is also &140, I'm not sure what's the difference between the two, but it seems that &163 is the one I am referring to).The arc symbol is used again and again and most likely denotes an abbreviation, similar to the horizontal stroke. No insult meant, but all of you should read the Cappelli introduction some time.
...
Dear Helmut,
First of all, no insult taken, but please don't think that we are all here not acquainted with Cappelli.
Second, could you please explain in more detail the "likelihood" that &163 denotes an abbreviation in the VMS? I guess you won't dispute the fact that if we substitute medieval Latin abbreviations for Voynich Manuscript characters, the results won't be promising?
RE: Extended EVA &163 - -JKP- - 17-03-2016
(17-03-2016, 10:20 AM)Helmut Winkler Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(16-03-2016, 10:07 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There is the "arc" symbol in the VMS represented as extended EVA &163. (There is also &140, I'm not sure what's the difference between the two, but it seems that &163 is the one I am referring to).The arc symbol is used again and again and most likely denotes an abbreviation, similar to the horizontal stroke. No insult meant, but all of you should read the Cappelli introduction some time.
...
I am well acquainted with Cappelli and in Latin (and several other languages), the arc/cap is definitely an abbreviation but I'm not sure it is used that way in the VMS. It might be. The odd thing is that the plain bench character behaves in much the same way as the capped bench char. It shows up in the same positions in approximately the same ratios. I haven't had time to analyze it more specifically (I wish I had more hours in the day) but it doesn't jump out as being different.
RE: Extended EVA &163 - Wladimir D - 17-03-2016
ANTON. Code 140 is what I have called on Bax sickle. It is largest and is written in upper case. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 29.12.15 (FILIP)
RE: Extended EVA &163 - Anton - 17-03-2016
Yes I understand, but I'm not sure why it is considered different from &163.
RE: Extended EVA &163 - Helmut Winkler - 18-03-2016
(17-03-2016, 11:06 AM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(17-03-2016, 10:20 AM)Helmut Winkler Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(16-03-2016, 10:07 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There is the "arc" symbol in the VMS represented as extended EVA &163. (There is also &140, I'm not sure what's the difference between the two, but it seems that &163 is the one I am referring to).The arc symbol is used again and again and most likely denotes an abbreviation, similar to the horizontal stroke. No insult meant, but all of you should read the Cappelli introduction some time.
...
Dear Helmut,
First of all, no insult taken, but please don't think that we are all here not acquainted with Cappelli.
Second, could you please explain in more detail the "likelihood" that &163 denotes an abbreviation in the VMS? I guess you won't dispute the fact that if we substitute medieval Latin abbreviations for Voynich Manuscript characters, the results won't be promising?
Dear Anton,
Well, you are guessing wrong.
In my opinion, the fundamental mistake in dealing with Beinecke 408 is that most people don't take it at its face value. Some guys tell me it is a ciphre but are not able to solve it, which is ridiculous for a 15th c. ciphre or they give me lots of statistics about how some glyphs are behaving but can't tell me what their statistics mean or read or translate a single glyph, not to mention the Far East and New World theories. It's been this way since the ms. was rediscovered and if you have no results in a hundred years you should sit back and think again. Beinecke 408 is a 1st half 15th c. Latin European manuscript and should be treated as one, most likely it is a highly abbreviated text. If there is something that looks like a 15th c. abbreviation stroke it should be treated as such and one should try to find out if there is an abbreviation and what it means. It is the same with other things, e.g. the sign that looks like the etcetera abbreviation, the Arabic numerals and so on.
If it waddles like a duck and so on ...