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+-- Forum: Voynich Research (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-27.html)
+--- Forum: Marginalia (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-45.html)
+--- Thread: 116v (/thread-437.html)
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RE: 116v - nickpelling - 26-06-2021
When I discussed ahia Maria in Curse 2006, it was already an old suggestion.
RE: 116v - Searcher - 26-06-2021
(26-06-2021, 09:05 PM)nickpelling Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.When I discussed ahia Maria in Curse 2006, it was already an old suggestion.An old and likely correct.
RE: 116v - Koen G - 26-06-2021
(26-06-2021, 02:37 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I guess there are two problems with 'ahia maria' in VMS 116v:
as Rene said, it is not clear that the spelling 'ahia' is documented
the word in 116v is closer to 'abia' (no descender and possibly closed lower loop)
Since Greek "g" is a fricative, it being represented by "h" would not be too far fetched. However, if it is really a "B", then a corruption of "hagia" seems much more unlikely. I'm not quite sure the loop is closed, but if you say it is closer to "abia" then I trust your judgement. It's a shame, finally something that seemed to make sense.
RE: 116v - Chagcharan - 01-09-2021
Hi. I'm not really caught up with the 99 pages of discussion here, so please excuse me if this has been discussed already. Anyway..
Has a possible Yiddish (medieval Yiddish) origin of the supposedly German part been explored? Perhaps German with a Yiddish influence?
RE: 116v - Aga Tentakulus - 01-09-2021
Rationale:
When persons are born in the same place. Perhaps the second generation. Have graduated from the same school with the same language and writing.
So it will probably not play a role whether Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindi, or Buddhist.
I do not think that one can take here a conclusion on the religion.
RE: 116v - Koen G - 01-09-2021
Aga, something may have gone wrong with the translation there, Yiddish is a language.
To answer the question, there is something weird going on with the text for sure, but I don't see why Yiddish in particular should be considered. That said, I know nothing about 15th century Yiddish, so who knows? It would certainly be revealing if it were the case.
RE: 116v - Aga Tentakulus - 01-09-2021
As I understand it, Yiddish is a Jewish dialect with (in this case) German influence. But the main part is the mother tongue ( Jewish ).
Same as the Alemannic, the source language is German, but still infused with Celtic and other.
Another example is Gottscher. German, after Byairic interspersed with Slovene.
This difference in Gottscher dialect from what I see in VM is not true. This is also a reason why I assume cvetkakocj@rogers.com is looking too far east.
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RE: 116v - Battler - 24-09-2021
Yiddish is a variant of older High German with a lot of Hebrew words. There is no such thing as a "Jewish language", perhaps you meant Hebrew? But the only Hebrew things Yiddish has are the alphabet and a lot of loanwords.
RE: 116v - cvetkakocj@rogers.com - 24-09-2021
(01-09-2021, 03:35 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This difference in Gottscher dialect from what I see in VM is not true. This is also a reason why I assume cvetkakocj@rogers.com is looking too far east.The VM is not written in Gottscher dialect of German. Besides vocabulary, there is also Slovenian grammar which the VM researchers are pointing out, but are not able to explain. As for the geographical location - why should Slovenia be too far east? It is true that Germans colonized part of Slovenia, namely Gotche, and that nobility (even Slovenian nobility) spoke German, but the population at large spoke Slovenian. As a matter of fact, Slovenian (Carinthian dialect of Slovenian) was also spoken in parts of Switzerland and Germany in the distant past. It goes all the way to the ancient Veneti, who, according to Jordanes, were the same as Wends and Slavs. Up to the mid-15th century, Slovenian language was used in installation of Carinthian princes and dukes.
How did the Gottscher dialect come into the VM discussion in the first place. Gotscher is not the same as Dolenjska dialect of Slovenian language. Gottschers were the German colonists who inhabited a few villages around the present day Kočevje and spoke their German language.
Was there any other German word on which the assumption is made that the language of the VM is German? I can list at least 150 recognizable Slovenian words in different grammatical forms. Can somebody else match that?
RE: 116v - Aga Tentakulus - 24-09-2021
To be quite precise. What you see in the VM is a fairly clean German. Some references point to the Bavarian dialect.
The Gottsch dialect also belongs to the Bavarian tribe, but has too many differences and they are visible. Therefore too far to the east.
150 words are no reason to assume Slavic. I also have this in Latin, with spelling rules. I do think, however, that near Carinthia the Slavic has influence, but does not occur purely.
1. why does he write german and not slavonic?
2. why does 116 seem romanic and not slavic?
3. if he grew up and taught in Strassbourg, why does he not write in proper Latin but in a dialect form?
You don't just learn a dialect as a monk, a doctor or anything else.
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