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+--- Forum: Marginalia (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-45.html)
+--- Thread: 116v (/thread-437.html)
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RE: 116v - -JKP- - 23-05-2021
Whoever wrote the text on this folio (or most of it) likes to use a long approach stroke (a long leading serif) on letters like "i" and "r". The leftmost stroke in this text is probably an approach stroke, but there is a dark splotch on the skin that obscures whether it is p, v or r. The middle letter is also indistinct and very disconnected. It might be p (which is often in front of "p" in German), but I can't tell for sure. I am pretty confident that the last letter is "r" because this is the style of "r" used in other places on the page. It's not uncommon for the second stroke to be disconnected from the stem in this style of "r".
RE: 116v - Aga Tentakulus - 23-05-2021
I really have no idea about this word. I'm still hoping that chance will play into my hands.
Which I'm considering.
A "pf" connection as in ( Kupfer, Opfer, Ampfer ). ( copper, sacrifice, dock ).
Since we have almost no double consonants, also double "ff" as in ( Pfeffer, Puffer ). ( pepper, buffer ).
At the beginning of the word, as it is sometimes written in reverse.
Also "un-, nu, v'un- u'v". The v' variant for ver-.
In addition, there are expressions where there are only regions.
As I said, I have no idea what is meant.
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RE: 116v - zamolxe - 23-05-2021
I'm just wondering if apart of 2 "voynichese" words, in the other words some letters are "voynichese" letters as well (o, d, etc). In this hypothesis, all must be sow in another perspective and it is worth to explore.
RE: 116v - -JKP- - 23-05-2021
Two of the characters do look like Voynich characters. The third "a" in oladabas and the "i" in vix.
RE: 116v - Aga Tentakulus - 23-05-2021
Basically, I need to understand the words and the meaning.
"leber" A piece of the offal.
"pox" (bock) Just means it was a male animal. Which animal is not said.
Ziegenbock, Schafbock, Rehbock, Steinbock, Holzbock
Goat, ram, roebuck, ibex, woodbuck
"vmen" can, as I have already written, also mean ( from one ).
Such would be the meaning:
"pox leber" from what ? "v'men (from one) xxxxxx".
Here the breed of the animal would be an answer. If it plays an important role.
This is just to give sense to the sentence.
Maybe it would be good to know what a billy goat looked like back then.
It looks similar to an ibex, but is smaller.
It was also used as a working animal.
[Anhang=5564] [Anhang=5563]
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RE: 116v - Anton - 23-05-2021
If we admit that "p" in "pbren" may stand for an abbreviation, it makes sense to consider that "P" in "pmen" and "pfer" may be an abbreviation too. Otherwise the "pf" bigram is difficult to fit into the context indeed. The foremost option that ever came to my mind was "pferd" (horse), but unfortunately there's not the slightest trace of "d" after "r".
RE: 116v - Aga Tentakulus - 23-05-2021
There are still a few words with the combination "rd".
Herd, Erde, Hürde.
Hearth, earth, hurdle.
But a combination of "pb" is as good as unlikely.
Even if I see the "p" as an abbreviation ( per-, pro- ) it still has to fit "bren".
I have never heard or read it, nor is it common elsewhere. It just doesn't fit.
I will therefore never be able to consider the first letter as a "p".
RE: 116v - geoffreycaveney - 23-05-2021
Just a general comment about the choice between the meaning of "pox (leber) ..." as (1) a curse, or (2) a simple record of an exchange: I would rather expect a curse in such a significant place as the only few lines of text on the final page of a large manuscript, parts of which (the few lines) are enciphered in two different cipher systems. It would seem to be a strange place to record the amount of money that goat liver cost.
RE: 116v - geoffreycaveney - 23-05-2021
I also observe that it does not seem to be clear at all that there is a word break in "umen", since the spaces after "poxleber" and before whatever it is that is written next are much wider than the small space between the "m" and the "e" in "umen".
There is a Latin word "umens" meaning "being wet; moist, wet".
The Romansch word "umens" meaning "men" is interesting to note as well, but surely much less likely.
RE: 116v - geoffreycaveney - 23-05-2021
Regarding the difficult to read word at the end of the phrase at the top of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. under discussion, "[something] de fer" would be an idiomatic phrase in French, "de fer" meaning "of iron; strong, resilient", and "de fer" is also apparently a standard phrase in heraldic mottos.
"vut" is an Old French word meaning "a wish, a desire", so "vut [de] fer" could possibly have been an idiomatic phrase meaning "a strong desire" in Old or Middle French.
"rut" in Old/Middle French, meaning "rut (sexual excitement)" would carry rather different implications.