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+--- Thread: 116v (/thread-437.html)
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RE: 116v - Aga Tentakulus - 02-05-2021
@geoffreycaveney
"gas" does not mean fast in this sense. I think you've got into the proverbs here.
Example: "give it gas" is what you say when driving a car, that it should go faster.
I could also say, "give it a go" or "step on it", "give it juice".
Ich könnte auch sagen, "gib mal Stoff" oder "drück auf die Tube", "gib Saft alter"
All three mean exactly the same thing.
Here it says gas, juice, dope and tube and they all stand for fast.
Or simply, go faster.
RE: 116v - geoffreycaveney - 02-05-2021
(02-05-2021, 08:34 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.@geoffreycaveney
"gas" does not mean fast in this sense. I think you've got into the proverbs here.
Example: "give it gas" is what you say when driving a car, that it should go faster.
I could also say, "give it a go" or "step on it", "give it juice".
Ich könnte auch sagen, "gib mal Stoff" oder "drück auf die Tube", "gib Saft alter"
All three mean exactly the same thing.
Here it says gas, juice, dope and tube and they all stand for fast.
Or simply, go faster.
Since my name is mentioned here, I must clarify that I am relying upon Anton's citation, confirmed by Rene, of the Middle High German word "gas" meaning "quickly, promptly".
I presume this medieval word and its meaning have nothing to do with gasoline and the phrase "give it gas".
-Geoffrey
RE: 116v - Anton - 02-05-2021
Yes, gâs is short for gâhes which in turn stands for schnell, hastig, plötzlich. Lexer states references, some of which I believe I have even checked in the past.
(02-05-2021, 08:08 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In recipes, " so nimm" is common, and the object is always an ingredient.
That's true, but I don't see why one would apriori treat the last line of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as a recipe.
(02-05-2021, 08:08 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Also, the word order: "nim gas mich" (take fast me) is as awkward in German as it is in English
That's in fact my main concern about this version.
RE: 116v - geoffreycaveney - 02-05-2021
(02-05-2021, 09:09 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Yes, gâs is short for gâhes which in turn stands for schnell, hastig, plötzlich. Lexer states references, some of which I believe I have even checked in the past.
(02-05-2021, 08:08 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In recipes, " so nimm" is common, and the object is always an ingredient.
That's true, but I don't see why one would apriori treat the last line of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as a recipe.
(02-05-2021, 08:08 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Also, the word order: "nim gas mich" (take fast me) is as awkward in German as it is in English
That's in fact my main concern about this version.
Awkward German syntax would corroborate my hypothesis of a writer merely semi-proficient in German. The fact that it is also awkward in English would not necessarily rule out an English writer either, as the author could have been self-consciously attempting to compose the German phrase differently than he would compose the phrase in English, being aware of the two languages' differences in syntax, and ended up writing a phrase with a syntax not natural in either (or any) language.
RE: 116v - Aga Tentakulus - 02-05-2021
To conclude the topic from my side, I would like to say.
When I look at the work of JKP concerning the "g" and the examples where a "tz" is shown, I notice that they are very similar.
What does it take? it takes me! Why does it take me ? Because I'm burning something. In Alemannic, "nimmts" has the same meaning as erwischt. caught
But since the sentence is only correct with a "tz" and also makes sense, I leave it at that.
RE: 116v - Anton - 02-05-2021
The idea of semi-proficient writer occured to me in the past, because that easily explains away our inability to make sense of all these scribbles. However, chances are that it is we who, six hundred years since, are semi-proficient, and not the writer.
Meanwhile, for the awkward grammar, I checked one of the Lexer's references for "gas", this is Vater Unser by Heinrich von Krolewiz, lines 3867 and forward:
Quote:da von so wart er ouch versniten,
wande Crist sprach: vil gahs
balde van mir sathanas,
dinen got niht versuche me.
Diz muste san zu hant irge,
er muste gahs von im vare
hin vider zu der tiuvel schare.
I also highlight "balde" (~ palde)
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: 116v - Anton - 02-05-2021
(02-05-2021, 09:39 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.But since the sentence is only correct with a "tz" and also makes sense, I leave it at that.
What I don't like in "tz", beside that crossbar issue, is that there is really a huge space between "nim" and the next characters.
RE: 116v - Anton - 02-05-2021
Shifting the discussion a line upwards: I have an idea about whence the "vix" might derive. Looking at that Shugborough stuff, I learned recently that "vix.ann." was the typical formula on Roman tombstones, being short for "vixit annis", meaning [s/he] lived for [this many] years. For example, VIX.ANN. L - he lived for 50 years.
I think it's possible that from that origin it made its way into the magic spell, even leaving its original meaning behind.
RE: 116v - Aga Tentakulus - 02-05-2021
@Anton
I can understand you well. I'm glad I don't have to learn Alemannic. I can also understand that the one with MHD doesn't understand it. It took my mother 20 years to master it, and she grew up in northern Germany and studied there. What you see in the VM is not bad, look in the Swiss Idiotikon, now it gets really bad. But for me it's normal.
So means "da da da" das da hier oder dort. the this here or there.
RE: 116v - Helmut Winkler - 03-05-2021
(02-05-2021, 08:08 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In recipes, " so nimm" is common, and the object is always an ingredient.
" So nimm mich" (=me) really does not fit here at all.
Also, the word order: "nim gas mich" (take fast me) is as awkward in German as it is in English, but I don't have sufficient knowledge about ME German to make that a firm statement.
Rene,
you are right of course- Just to mention it, the word order would be nim mcih gas, another aspect is that this reading would be in German nearly an obscenity, which is dificult to see in this context