+- The Voynich Ninja (https://www.voynich.ninja)
+-- Forum: Voynich Research (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-27.html)
+--- Forum: Marginalia (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-45.html)
+--- Thread: 116v (/thread-437.html)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
RE: 116v - Anton - 26-02-2020
(26-02-2020, 03:23 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It might be possible to argue that it is "nichiton" with a loop-n and no dot on the first "i". I can't remember if there are people who have suggested this (maybe Anton?).
Yes, that was me. Nichiton is the old name of Frangocastello.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: 116v - -JKP- - 26-02-2020
Anton, I was skeptical about it being "n" because usually only "m" is written with a funny leading hook like that, but I found a smattering a scripts in which "n" is also written that way (it's rare, quite rare, but it does exist).
I can't take time to look for my samples right now, I'm behind in everything Voynich-related, but I will look for them and get them posted when I can since it means your idea should be considered as a valid possibility.
RE: 116v - Anton - 26-02-2020
Thanks for that, but personally I don't favour it ahead of "anchiton".
Anchiton coupled with the gates of hell (tartere portas) looks to me more promising.
"Anchiton" is far from commonplace though, as we discussed earlier, so I think when and if anchiton is found elsewhere that would be a huge leap in the quest for the VMS provenance.
RE: 116v - arca_libraria - 28-02-2020
(26-02-2020, 11:26 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Thanks for that, but personally I don't favour it ahead of "anchiton".
Anchiton coupled with the gates of hell (tartere portas) looks to me more promising.
"Anchiton" is far from commonplace though, as we discussed earlier, so I think when and if anchiton is found elsewhere that would be a huge leap in the quest for the VMS provenance.
I have access to something known as the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., and I've just run "anchiton" and "nichiton" through the database without getting any hits. The database is huge, but there are limitiations: it's not great for medical Latin (I'll check eTK/eVK next) and it doesn't record things like marginalia, texts with hybrid Latin/vernacular language, or the millions of minor variations that exist in handwritten copies of texts.
I did not get any hits for "anchiton" or "nichiton". The database has two different wildcard searches, you can use a ? to specify that you only want a single character to be considered for that position (e.g. ?ept in English would only return 4-letter words ending in -ept) and * to specify 0, 1 or more wildcard letters. I searched for *chiton and I have attached a screenshot of my search results. I made the search as big as possible, with no restrictions on author, date, period, or any other way of limiting the results.
I am not especially surprised that the search did not find anything useful - the type of text on f. 116v, from the little that we can see, does not resemble an excerpt from the major classical or medieval texts, but I wanted to at least share my results so that you could see what I had tried.
RE: 116v - Koen G - 28-02-2020
Architon might be worth investigating. So it is a Hebrew name, mentioned in a footnote as the father of someone involved in David's flight to Nob. See here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
It says "ipsum fuisse Achiam, filum Architon,.. " So I assume Architon is a genitive? What would be the nominative form?
RE: 116v - Anton - 28-02-2020
@arca_libraria:
Here's the thread dedicated to the provenance of anchiton: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: 116v - arca_libraria - 28-02-2020
(28-02-2020, 09:07 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.@arca_libraria:
Here's the thread dedicated to the provenance of anchiton: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Thanks Anton. I lurked here for a year or so before joining, and I try to read all the active threads, but there's a lot of important stuff I need to read so that I don't just repeat stuff you've all done already!
RE: 116v - arca_libraria - 28-02-2020
I want to add this - I didn't mean that my database search should shut down the quest for "anchiton" - I just thought it might be helpful to run the word through a fairly comprehensive database of Classical and Patristic Latin, but it doesn't have everything, and it is missing quite a lot of medical Latin and/or Latin texts composed after c. 1100.
RE: 116v - Anton - 28-02-2020
That said, it's quite strange that it apparently fails to include Glossa Ordinaria.
RE: 116v - arca_libraria - 28-02-2020
(28-02-2020, 09:44 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.That said, it's quite strange that it apparently fails to include Glossa Ordinaria.
Anton, you're right. I am an idiot. Last time I used the database I turned on some of the tools to help identify fragments when the spelling/grammar are very corrupt and I completely forgot to turn them off, but they stopped my searches from running properly when I was searching for single, odd, partial words i.e. anchit* and nichit*. I use that database a lot for identifying a medieval scribe's half-remembered attempt at a few words from a psalm, Pliny, or Isidore, but I'm rarely searching for a single, non-standard word.
I'll run the searches again and anything I can think of from the thread you linked and I'll post the results here.
For now, please disregard everything in post #744 and feel free to delete it if that would make more sense overall for the thread. I'm really sorry.