+- The Voynich Ninja (https://www.voynich.ninja)
+-- Forum: Voynich Research (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-27.html)
+--- Forum: Marginalia (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-45.html)
+--- Thread: 116v (/thread-437.html)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
RE: 116v - Anton - 06-01-2020
(05-01-2020, 11:15 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.OK, not always. Let's say 99%
We say: the exception proves the rule.
I think the "g" color code in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is pretty close to what is found in f116v.
RE: 116v - Koen G - 06-01-2020
I'm not entirely on board about the O.
About the devil, I can imagine they won't readily write down his name without good reason. Especially the type who casts protective spells might be afraid to literally write "may the devil take me". I just came up with this example to illustrate the kind of oath I was thinking of.
RE: 116v - Anton - 06-01-2020
By the way, the recollection of my 2015 post made me also recall the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. which I quoted there and which contains a "sonim" directly after a spell.
I have received some corrections from Stefan Guzy in 2018 as to the translation of the trailer (the corrected version is in the current verson of the blog post), but frankly I'm still in doubt if that is the literal translation.
Dissen brieff sol er tragen an dem hals und alle die wille er den brieff an dem hals treit so nim dert in den siech tagen
My initial translation of the emphasized portion has been: "...and all the power of this note is in its being worn on the neck..." which would explain the subsequent "so", serving here exactly as the English "so" would.
RE: 116v - -JKP- - 06-01-2020
palsen ubren
halsen (neck) ubren (over)
[spell words] over/on the neck. I know... it doesn't look anything like "h", but I thought I'd throw it out there.
aror sheey (spell words, talismanic words)
There's a + (plus sign) after maria
1st line - malady
2nd line (ancient words, names) - at least this was traditional
3rd line - magical words in Latin (don't have to mean anything) or pseudo Latin, invocation to ahia or aka (or whatever) and Maria PLUS
aror cheey (all of which maybe is written on a strip of parchment or maybe just the last part, the VMS words).
on the neck, so quickly take me
Can't really justify a reading of halsen ubren because both beginning letters are the same, not different, and it simply can't be "h" but anyway, halsen means "the neck" in germanic.
RE: 116v - Koen G - 06-01-2020
Anton, it is again a beautiful example of a circumstance in the preceding clause. "Alle die wille" is just like English all the while.
All the while when he is wearing this letter (this is the circumstance, condition....) THEN it takes away the pain.
RE: 116v - -JKP- - 06-01-2020
I've accumulated a lot of information on charms that I've been trying to write up as a blog or paper. I keep trying, but I have more than 40 blogs on the go... all need little details cleaned up, and it always takes longer than I expect.
RE: 116v - Aga Tentakulus - 06-01-2020
uff halsen = anlasten, aufbürden
RE: 116v - Koen G - 06-01-2020
JKP, if we're not looking at a member of the north-Germanic language family, then final -en as definite article is unlikely. You may be on to something though.
In modern Dutch, "polsen" means wrists. Might the VM word be related?
RE: 116v - -JKP- - 06-01-2020
Aga, good point. That phrase can be understood as a reference to a burden.
RE: 116v - Anton - 06-01-2020
(06-01-2020, 01:11 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Anton, it is again a beautiful example of a circumstance in the preceding clause. "Alle die wille" is just like English all the while.
Yes that's basically what Stefan told me. I've initially interpreted "wille" as modern German "Wille", seeing that as "power".
Quote:All the while when he is wearing this letter (this is the circumstance, condition....) THEN it takes away the pain.
"dert" is not pain, it's "dort". You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
hence, "so nim dert" => so take it there
"in den siech tagen" => on the sick days
So I stlll can't make the puzzle of the grammar.