+- The Voynich Ninja (https://www.voynich.ninja)
+-- Forum: Voynich Research (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-27.html)
+--- Forum: Marginalia (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-45.html)
+--- Thread: 116v (/thread-437.html)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
RE: 116v - Koen G - 04-01-2020
Anton: if the -en form is a verb without expressed subject and without any other verbs preceding it, then I can really only see it as an infinitive (which can be used as an imperative). In the case of "palden probieren", imperative is really the only solution I can think of.
If a subject is expressed then it can be a simple present case if the subject is plural (they/we/you(pl) try).
We have something that looks like a grammatical ending here, so we should use it to our advantage in weighing the options.
About empiricism and medicine, certainly, but that's a modern, or at least renaissance concept. Medieval medicine relied on traditional wisdom. Some methods were effective, but others, like bloodletting, were rarely beneficial. I just don't have the impression that medieval medicine is something you try. It's something you do, and if you're lucky (God willing) you get better.
But again I might be wrong. If like you suggest "probieren" phrases might exist in this context, it would be a huge argument in favor of this interpretation.
RE: 116v - Anton - 04-01-2020
(04-01-2020, 10:03 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.We have something that looks like a grammatical ending here, so we should use it to our advantage in weighing the options.
In fact we don't. We have the five-letter sequence "pbren" (if we admit that the first one is "p", and the last one is "n") which does not make sense literally. Hence one seeks to expand it as an abbreviation. Once expanded, the abbreviation needs to be "grammatical", but an abbreviation as such is not grammatical. "USA", "UN" or "RUS" exhibit no grammar in them.
The leading "p" would be common for "pro-", "per-", the trailing "n" with a tail I don't know for what, unless it's rather "r" with a tail in which case it might be "-rum".
RE: 116v - Aga Tentakulus - 04-01-2020
What I have already seen, " so bren es uff en glut" so it burns on an embers.
Where "burn" here means to heat or warm up.
To heat it up on an embers.
The possibility of seeing "palden" "pald en" as "bald ein" "soon one" exists.
RE: 116v - Anton - 04-01-2020
One match (departing from the apothecary context) is some form of "perbrevis" (= very short or small)
RE: 116v - Anton - 04-01-2020
(04-01-2020, 11:22 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.What I have already seen, " so bren es uff en glut" so it burns on an embers.
Where "burn" here means to heat or warm up.
To heat it up on an embers.
Yes, like the modern "brennen". Any chance for any prefix to be used with that, such as "pro-" or "per-"?
Quote:The possibility of seeing "palden" "pald en" as "bald ein" "soon one" exists.
Good point!
RE: 116v - Anton - 04-01-2020
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Paragraph 3:
???? aber erbsel wasser machen so nim den erbsel inde (?) bren in uff einem helm ...
Other than "uff" is "auf" in Idiotikon, I'm unable to comprehend this.
I mean, can "bren" stand for "heat" or "fever"?
RE: 116v - Koen G - 04-01-2020
Well found, Anton. Did you spot this just by scanning the text?
It's interesting to see "so nim" and "bren" in one sentence, hopefully one of our German friends knows how to interpret this sentence.
Edit: the first word might be "wiltu", i.e. "do you want"
RE: 116v - Anton - 05-01-2020
Yes, I possess the useful skill to find something interesting in a few clicks
I'm looking at pharmacopaeas of this time frame to find some apothecary prescription notes, but all I've found so far are just usual "recipes" as we know them.
BTW, there's something curious in this MS, unrelated to the Voynich theme, I'll post in another thread.
RE: 116v - Koen G - 05-01-2020
I have zero experience reading medieval German, but what I can make of it is the following:
"However, if you wish to make barberry water, then take the barberry and "burn" it over a helmet and..."
RE: 116v - Anton - 05-01-2020
Looks like it's a good deal Swiss (the description says "Southwestern Germany"), so that introduces additional complications.
But so you say, "bren" is a verb here? My idea has been that if "bren" can stand as a noun, then "pbren" might be "bren" following some abbreviated preposition.