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+--- Thread: 116v (/thread-437.html)
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RE: 116v - -JKP- - 27-05-2019
I guess we should also keep in mind that it might not be "gas" mich. It might be "gaf" mich (there is an abrasion in the parchment where the crossbar for the "f" would be and there is a very slight trace of ink). I usually transcribe it as gas/gaf.
RE: 116v - Helmut Winkler - 27-05-2019
They are two different words: das with a long s should be dasz mit sz or ß, the conjunction, das with the round s is the article
RE: 116v - Anton - 27-05-2019
(27-05-2019, 09:49 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I guess we should also keep in mind that it might not be "gas" mich. It might be "gaf" mich (there is an abrasion in the parchment where the crossbar for the "f" would be and there is a very slight trace of ink). I usually transcribe it as gas/gaf.
I'm pretty confident it's "s". If you zoom it, you'll see that this trace of ink is actually the part of the "m" 's ascender. And that mens that "s" and "m" are really very close to each other, virtually no space. I'd say, 99% for "s".
RE: 116v - MarcoP - 27-05-2019
(27-05-2019, 11:04 AM)Helmut Winkler Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.They are two different words: das with a long s should be dasz mit sz or ß, the conjunction, das with the round s is the article
So this could be compatible with "gas" (for geiß) being written with a long-s, while the apparently Latin words ending in -s are written with an 8-like final 's'?
RE: 116v - Helmut Winkler - 27-05-2019
(27-05-2019, 12:45 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(27-05-2019, 11:04 AM)Helmut Winkler Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.They are two different words: das with a long s should be dasz mit sz or ß, the conjunction, das with the round s is the article
So this could be compatible with "gas" (for geiß) being written with a long-s, while the apparently Latin words ending in -s are written with an 8-like final 's'?
That is correct, Marco, and the a in gas is more likely an ei, geis
RE: 116v - Helmut Winkler - 27-05-2019
(27-05-2019, 11:32 AM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(27-05-2019, 09:49 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I guess we should also keep in mind that it might not be "gas" mich. It might be "gaf" mich (there is an abrasion in the parchment where the crossbar for the "f" would be and there is a very slight trace of ink). I usually transcribe it as gas/gaf.
I'm pretty confident it's "s". If you zoom it, you'll see that this trace of ink is actually the part of the "m" 's ascender. And that mens that "s" and "m" are really very close to each other, virtually no space. I'd say, 99% for "s".
And I think we should not underestimate the fact that gas/geis makes sense, gaf does not
RE: 116v - Monica Yokubinas - 31-05-2019
Page 116 is a type of shorthand or multi-coded note of book references. I only have it partially decoded so I have not said anything as of yet.
This shorthand is also found on top of page 17r The first word or glyph is 'um' which is German for "in order to" second is Voynich 'yay' glyph meaning "to sweep" Have not figured out the reference yet only a few letters on the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. page. Will get back to you and scan notes later... busy day.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. page second line, first word glyph is the same 'um' for "in order to" and is a reverence to the work of Abu Musa Jabir Ibn Hayyan, the father of Arabic chemistry. (the + symbols are either a reference to his books or other alchemists) but you can make out the AluJybur or Al Jybur just by looking.
last line 2 Voynich words for 'hated one El and to sweep of perfection' and references Sham Kitab Ma'arif or the book of the sons of knosis, written in the 13th century by Ahmad Al-Buni... A very dark magic book and is banned in the Middle East and brings a death sentence.
RE: 116v - -JKP- - 31-05-2019
Monica, where do you see "um", on 116v or 17r?
- The first word on 116v is po? (probably pox, since the filled-in x shape is the same shape ad style of x as those on line 3).
- The first word on 17r is mallier.
The first word on the second line of 116v is not "um". It's either anchiton, mehiton, or michiton (if the first letter is a medieval loop-m but is unusually missing the tail on the m). There is no "u" at the beginning of the second line.
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In medieval script, plus signs are not usually references. They either represent a cross, or they represent a paragraph to note (the same way they used the word "nota"), or they represent a position in the text (usually ecclesiastical text) where the priest genuflects to give more emphasis or power to the words. The plus sign was also used in charms to indicate a place to genuflect, and was just barely starting to be used as a plus/minus symbol in ledgers (to indicate credits as opposed to debits).
The 116v writer may have had some personal meaning for the plus signs, but it was not typical for it to be used as cross-references to other authors in medieval texts.
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So you are saying that aror sheey means "hated one El and to sweep of perfection". Can you explain how you got that? I think I know how you did it, but others might be interested in an explanation.
RE: 116v - Monica Yokubinas - 31-05-2019
(31-05-2019, 05:51 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Monica, where do you see "um", on 116v or 17r?
Both of these are written in normal 15th-century script.
- The first word on 116v is po? (probably pox, since the filled-in x shape is the same shape ad style of x as those on line 3).
- The first word on 17r is mallier.
The first word on the second line of 116v is not "um". It's either anchiton, mehiton, or michiton (if the first letter is a medieval loop-m but is unusually missing the tail on the m). There is no "u" at the beginning of the second line.
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In medieval script, plus signs are not usually references. They either represent a cross, or they represent a paragraph to note (the same way they used the word "nota"), or they represent a position in the text (usually ecclesiastical text) where the priest genuflects to give more emphasis or power to the words. The plus sign was also used in charms to indicate a place to genuflect, and was just barely starting to be used as a plus/minus symbol in ledgers (to indicate credits as opposed to debits).
The 116v writer may have had some personal meaning for the plus signs, but it was not typical for it to be used as cross-references to other authors in medieval texts.
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So you are saying that aror sheey means "hated one El and to sweep of perfection". Can you explain how you got that? I think I know how you did it, but others might be interested in an explanation.
Voynich letter glyphs for N and L are very similar, and are short or elongated depending on how long of a sound is used.
voynich words on last line translate to 'snal' sn = hated one + al = a name of God, 2nd word 'yayccg' yay = to sweep/sweeps up/preserve + yq = pedantic person/perfection + g = of.
The u/v (voynich letter glyph) is attached to the beginning of the m. The person is utilizing part Voynich, part medieval script in a very coded way, because the books they are referring to are very bad. No where in this book is there any reference to Jesus or any other cross used. These were markers to show a separation of words.
page 17r has one glyph that looks possibly Malayalam in origin and referencing another book to use.
RE: 116v - -JKP- - 31-05-2019
No, I'm sorry, I don't buy it.
On 17r, mallier is written in completely normal 15th-century Gothic-style medieval letters. It doesn't include any VMS glyphs. There DOES appear to be a VMS glyph farther towards the right of the line where the text is fading.
...
I will agree that there are VMS glyphs at the beginning of 116v fourth line, but not on the first or second lines. Those are also completely normal 15th-century medieval letters (also Gothic style).
It's not the letters that are hard to interpret (except a couple of the messy ones), they are normal and most are common, it's the spelling and grammar that are unusual. Even the spelling is not super unusual (spelling varied greatly in the medieval period), but the combinations of words is not common (and not grammatical).