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+--- Forum: Marginalia (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-45.html)
+--- Thread: 116v (/thread-437.html)
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RE: 116v - Koen G - 21-10-2017
(21-10-2017, 10:03 AM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(20-10-2017, 06:22 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."imiltos" is an option, but what is "imiltos"? The advantage of "mult*s" is that that would be a known word.
I know it's unlikely, but You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is another possibility.
But that would fit the "carcere" option perfectly - free translation: "you liberated the innocent".
Or "you imprisoned the innocent"?
RE: 116v - Anton - 21-10-2017
Quote:We're making a whole nest of assumptions in order to turn it into a real word, but there are other "words" on the page that don't resolve into real words. so maybe this one doesn't either.
Yes, but if it's not a real word, then of course any effort is useless and it does not matter much whether it's "imiltos" or, say, "miiltos".
Quote:Has anyone ever suggested that the plummeting rock might be a kidney stone?
If I remeber correctly, David Jackson did, a couple of years ago.
Quote:I know it's unlikely, but You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is another possibility.
That's well spotted! How could we miss that all the time?! The famous church chant says "Nil inultum remanebit". A bit earlier it suggests that "quidquid latet apparebit" - and I hope that in respect of the VMS we don't have to wait until Doomsday.
About the context. "Inultum" means "unavenged". I would not state in advance that it's unlikely. Suppose the line is divided into two phrases: "anchiton oladabas inultos" and "te car cere portas M", what then?
But let's begin with the grammar. What's the exact word form "inultos" (and let's also consider "inultes")?!
RE: 116v - Paris - 21-10-2017
(21-10-2017, 02:44 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.But let's begin with the grammar. What's the exact word form "inultos" ?!
I'll say accusative form, plural of the word : inultus.
RE: 116v - Koen G - 21-10-2017
So it's appropriate as an object for the second person subject.
RE: 116v - Anton - 21-10-2017
Yes, accusative masculine plural.
The other variant - "inultes" - is grammatically invalid.
Translations are: unavenged, unpunished, unharmed.
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Since masculine, it can't refer to "portas" as "gates" as an applicable adjective. So it may refer to "oladabas" (if the latter is a noun) or stand on its own. If on its own, then it's subject of some action, since accusative determines that. Technically, it can refer to "portas" as "carry"
[You] portas (carry) [in present] - whom? - inultos (the unavenged).
However, "carcere" and "te" then fall out of place. It would have been "tu", not "te": anchiton, you carry the unavenged.
Even if it's not "te", but shorthand for "tunc" (a common abbreviation, only the ligature is missing), nonetheless "carcere" gets orphaned here.
RE: 116v - Koen G - 21-10-2017
Can carcere be other cases? If it's nominative it's problematic either way. I don't think it's a proper verb either.
RE: 116v - Anton - 21-10-2017
"Carcere" is not a verb but a noun - "carcer" in nominative.
RE: 116v - Koen G - 21-10-2017
But how can carcere be subject?
RE: 116v - Anton - 21-10-2017
I meant "imultos", not "carcere", and moreover I meant "object" when I said "subject", sorry for that. Somebody is doing something with imultos, and because of that it is placed in accusative.
"Carcere" seemingly does not fit in this design.
RE: 116v - Koen G - 21-10-2017
Anton!
Carcere is ablative case of carcer!
(You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.) A You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. used in some languages to indicate movement away fromsomething, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.