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+--- Thread: 116v (/thread-437.html)
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RE: 116v - VViews - 03-03-2016
David Jackson and Helmut Winkler:
You both seem pretty sure of your translations but they are not the same. It would be great to see some consensus!
As I posted, Stephanus Reway appears to have been a small-time Hungarian ruler, not a singer. So I'm really puzzled by all these musical references... was he once a choir boy or something?
Side note: I find it really discouraging that even a non-cipher, plainly written text from the Renaissance could be so hard to figure out... makes me despair at the odds for someone to ever solve the Voynich TBH!
RE: 116v - -JKP- - 03-03-2016
(03-03-2016, 01:31 AM)VViews Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.David Jackson and Helmut Winkler:
You both seem pretty sure of your translations but they are not the same. It would be great to see some consensus!
As I posted, Stephanus Reway appears to have been a small-time Hungarian ruler, not a singer. So I'm really puzzled by all these musical references... was he once a choir boy or something?
Side note: I find it really discouraging that even a non-cipher, plainly written text from the Renaissance could be so hard to figure out... makes me despair at the odds for someone to ever solve the Voynich TBH!
I'm pretty sure the reference is to a songwriter, as opposed to a singer. I needed to figure out the handwriting to get the "author" part right, but that would mean songwriter.
Many people named their children after rulers. There may be more than one Stephanus Reway or it could be a relative, since names were passed down through families.
RE: 116v - davidjackson - 03-03-2016
My first reading was off the transcription given.
I looked at the image afresh - I think the first word is von / bon ( the v/b confusion was/is very commo), archaic form of buen or good. The penultimate word is palabras, words. Can't read the last word, I'm looking at it from a phones screen, I suppose it could be jovenes, young. Cantantes is plural and means singers. Autire would be properly spelt autor, but if you read it as the verb it makes sense - it could be translated as to direct.
I read von labor es autire cantantes palabras ?
Or a phrase meaning : good work it is to author (direct) singers with words ?
But we're missing a preposition for the sentence to make sense.
Helmut has read it as Latin, I read it as archaic castellan. I'm not really sure - the verb to authordoesn't exist in Spanish, although autor had an archaic meaning of a theatrical creative manager.
RE: 116v - Helmut Winkler - 03-03-2016
1) I think Old Catalan in a Jüngerer Titurel Ms. a bit unlikely.
2) Sounds a bit like Nec bene cantantis labor est audire puellas Ovid, Tristia ex ponto 4,10,18
RE: 116v - MarcoP - 03-03-2016
(01-03-2016, 09:58 AM)Helmut Winkler Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(01-03-2016, 05:26 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.pulchras puellas?
it is 19 December
Non labor es[t] audire cantantes pulchras puellas
This makes sense to me.
I think it has to be audire, not autire:
* audire is a Latin word
* compare the third letter in au?ire with "die" (first line) and "cantantes"
I was uncertain about "Non", but google says that "Non labor est" is a rather frequent expression.
RE: 116v - -JKP- - 03-03-2016
People who wrote in Spanish, German, Italian, and French in the middle ages generously sprinkled their text with Latin.
RE: 116v - Diane - 04-03-2016
.. that's because they all learned to read and write from the psalter - even as late as the 15thC it served as a primer.
RE: 116v - MarcoP - 14-03-2016
The 2012 transcription and translation of the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. by Johannes Albus are available on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
The manuscript's last page - a recipe
The text on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. of the Voynich MS has been subject to a significant amount of analysis and speculation. The present paper presents a new transcription and tentative reading of this text. It is written in a mixture of mostly Latin, some old German (and two unreadable words in Voynichese) representing the memorandum of a medieval medical recipe. The rather abbreviated style of the Latin words is typical for such a recipe. With the illustrations on the margin referring to the text, the recipe´s ingredients as well as the title point out to a wound plaster with a billy goat´s liver as its main remedy. This supersticious cure with a liver can be traced back to the tradition of antique medicine and Pliny the Elder´s Natural history, while the addition of oil and beewax made it a soap-like balm, that was widely in use for plasters.
Transcription with abbreviations and omissions in square brackets
poxleber umen[do] putriter.
+ an[te] chiton olei dabas + multas + t[un]c + t[an]ta[a](?) cer[a]e + portas + M[ixtura] +
fix[a] + man[nipulis] IX + mor[sulis] IX + vix + alt[e]ra + matura +
... ... (two ciphered words) pals [ein]en pbrey so nim[m] gei[s]smi[l]ch O
Translation
Billy goat´s liver for wet rot
At the membrane you gave oil, then you bring a lot of the much(?) wax, in a
fixed mixture: 9 hands full, 9 morsels (from) the only just double mature
... ... (two ciphered words), squash it into a paste, then take goat´s milk.
I just saw a recipe from the Pseudo Apuleius Platonicus herbal that includes oil and goat's fat as a cure for articular pain. A goat is illustrated on the same page in Florence You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 1275 ca.
Transcription:
xxii nomen he[r]be ieribulbu[m]
nascit[ur] ubiq[ue] c[ir]ca sepes sordidi[s] et des[er]tis
i ad articuloru[m] dolorem
he[r]ba[m] ieribulbu[m] cu[m] adipe cap[ri]nu[m] et olei libras ii
in se pisatum et conmixtum uteris dolorem
mirifice tollit
Translation:
22. The name of the plant is Ieribulbum [possibly You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.]
it grows almost everywhere, often in vile and desert [places]
1. [As a cure] for articular pain.
The Ieribulbum plant with goat's fat and 2 pounds of oil,
mashed and rubbed on the abdomen, wonderfully
removes pain.
A very similar version of this recipe appears in this You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. of Pseudo Apuleius (where the plant is called "hieribulbum", recipe XXI).
RE: 116v - ReneZ - 15-03-2016
Thanks Marco,
Johannes Albus presented a slightly different translation at the event, which he was going to publish, but this did not happen. I lost contact with him, and don't have a final version.
While I am not so confident anymore about large parts of his reading, what remains is an increased belief that this was not written by a later owner, but by the author/scribe himself.
It is important to realise that the contents of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. consist of at least three parts:
- the top line
- the three following lines
- the illustrations.
To understand whether this is from the MS author or someone else entirely, one needs to understand whether they all belong together. There are several pros and cons.
The three lines are inside the normal text frame of the MS pages so should not be called marginal, but the other two items are marginal in that sense.
The top line looks like a heading or title, but the MS itself does not seem to have any such headings.
The three lines have been compared to pen trials or notes from a scribe who has just completed his work, and adds some expression of his feeling (which may take a wild variety of forms). There are plenty of interesting examples. The fact that it has two Voynich words integrated in it suggests that it is from the original author/scribe, but this depends on whether the writing is really the same hand as the main text.
Given that there is (apparently - I believe so) a goat liver in the heading, goat milk in the three lines, and a marginal goat drawing, the suggestion is strong that they belong together.
Given that the goat looks similar to the Aries drawings, and the declining figure also has similarity with other human drawings, the suggestion is also strong that they are from the original draughtsman. Also here, a more detailed comparison should be made.
As regards the 'recipe', billy goat liver was indicated already by Galen and Dioscurides, relying on earlier sources (Herophilus), to improve night vision, apparently because the night vision of goats is very good. As it turned out, it has a high dosis of Vitamin A which actually should help.
The two-line 'charm' may or may not be part of the treatment.... Nice examples are given by Ellie and JKP:
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RE: 116v - Davidsch - 03-04-2016
![[Image: f116v-margin.jpg]](http://ms.webpoint.nl/img/spacesint/f116v-margin.jpg)
I was browsing through the PDF "THE HERBAL OF DIOSCORIDES THE GREEK INDEXES ALTERNATE NAMES"
and did some search terms, on parts of possibible transcriptions, to see of any word would resemble part of plant, oil, root etc. in the manuscript.
Nothing solid was found, but a nice exercise.
searched on
pox:
smallpox 304
smallpox pustules 307, 312,
lebe:
Lebekbaum 182
umon:
apopleumonos 727
erechneumonis 280
apopleumonos 727
pherthumerthrumonthu
PNEUMON ALOPEKOS
EPITHUMON 731
PNEUMON CHOIRIOS
PNEUMON THALASSIOS
pneumonia 24, 175, 399,
umen:
clumenion 556
CHALKOS KEKUMENOS
ERIA KEKAUMENA 211
KLUMENON 555
KEKAUMENOS 791
PEPLUMENOS 790
PERIKLUMENON 556
Bitumen 99, 100
Flos frumentorum 372
Chiton:
- (no results)
Anchi:
anchinops 587
cynanchites 399
synanchia abscessed throat
753
synanchic 392, 399, 476,
669, 670, 706, 753, 807
Ola:
(…56 results)
viola alba 519
viola matronalis 519
viola purpurea 672
uniola 572
labatholabat 356
Viola odorata 656
Ceve:
- (no results)
Dabas:
- (no results)
Porta
- No results
Port:
(16 results)
portulaca 275
portulaca agrestis 643
portulaca sylvestris 360,
..
Valoc:
- No rersult
Mich:
Schwartz Kommich 45, 472
Gaf:
-no results
Gas:
Ergasima 78
Nim:
anonim 451
astrismunim 619
gal:
gal:
(107 results)
..
AGALLOCHON 27
ANAGALLIS 348
ARKEOTHOS MEGALE
101
MEGALEION 72
Agallochum 27
Aquilaria agallocha 27
Cynometra agallocha 27
Megalium 72
Ornithogalum arabicum
336
Ornithogalum luteum 335
Ornithogalum maritima
336, 756, 757
Ornithogalum umbellatum
Viburnum gallorum 734
Anagallis coerulea 348
Anagallis arvensis 348
Anagallis phoenecea 348
Anagallis repens 348
Ornithogalum maritima
Viburnum gallorum 732