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+--- Thread: 116v (/thread-437.html)
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RE: 116v - MarcoP - 08-09-2016
Another spell fragment from Buitzruss' notebook Clm 671 (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.).
I read the two words "+Anchionada+basa+" (I render the different initial "a" as uppercase).
(it could also be "Anchianada")
Please note that the two "include" "da bas".
I have absolutely no idea about a possible meaning for the first word.
As far as I know, "basa" is not a Latin word. It could be related with "basia" (kisses) or other similar words.
+anchiton oladabas+
+anchionada+basa+
RE: 116v - Koen G - 08-09-2016
I second Rene's comment. In the medieval dialect continuum, this form of German must have been relatively close to Dutch.
It's also a much more logical solution, to write the spell close to the affected body part, rather than with a hat on water.
(though I secretly hoped the hat on water thing would be true
)
RE: 116v - Searcher - 08-09-2016
(08-09-2016, 09:08 AM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Another spell fragment from Buitzruss' notebook Clm 671 (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.).
I read the two words "+Anchionada+basa+" (I render the different initial "a" as uppercase).
Please note that the two "include" "da bas".
I have absolutely no idea about a possible meaning for the first word.
As far as I know, "basa" is not a Latin word. It could be related with "basia" (kisses) or other similar words.
Marco,
" You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view." likely means " a base" or "a ground" in this dialect.
I'd divide these words in anchi +You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.+basa. As much as I can suppose, "anchi" here means You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. = curved, bowed down.
Anchi+onada = bowing down in grace, gratefulness (to the ground).
RE: 116v - MarcoP - 08-09-2016
Since Buitzruss' vowels are difficult to read, here are a few examples of "o" (again from f61v).
+ Aurea + Oxasichen? + et alia nomi[n]a
dei sc[ul]pta i[n]anulo arge[n]teo ....
+ Aurea + Oxasichen? + and the other names
of god engraved on a silver ring ....
RE: 116v - Helmut Winkler - 08-09-2016
Another guess
¶ et fuer den zant schwern schreib an das wang mit einer tintten rex pax fax ++++ in christo + filio + david vnd schreib den namen Apollonia vnd sprich 3 pater noster und 3 ave maria
And I don‘t want to be contrary, but I rather think it is oberdeutsch (schwer zahnen and Wange and the rest sound very Bavarian)
And a remark: My personal opinion is that clm 671 and Beinecke 408 are very similar in many ways
RE: 116v - -JKP- - 08-09-2016
(08-09-2016, 09:08 AM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Another spell fragment from Buitzruss' notebook Clm 671 (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.).
I read the two words "+Anchionada+basa+" (I render the different initial "a" as uppercase).
(it could also be "Anchianada")
Please note that the two "include" "da bas".
I have absolutely no idea about a possible meaning for the first word.
As far as I know, "basa" is not a Latin word. It could be related with "basia" (kisses) or other similar words.
+anchiton oladabas+
+anchionada+basa+
Very good catch, Marco. And wow! Look at the hodgepodge of languages that follows in the next two paragraphs!
[By the way, anchi is "hips" in Italian, isn't it? but there doesn't appear to be a space between anchi and anada and I don't recognize basa in anything other than Spanish.]
The following transcription is very rough—it's a first pass and it usually takes me three or four passes to work out all the handwriting and get closer to what is intended, but here's a VERY rough first-go (note that horse "pferd" is included in both Italian and German) and note the frequent use of the Latin 2 (ur/tur) abbreviation, except he doesn't use it to mean "ur":
"Si uno kaballo sta restino vade sla?[i]? casa del uno praede eqwerde iacatare un frpise 2 disto far f frum? unen & nulum und mach das der pferd in das pis •s• qui sit irmera? orig eq'r lnn~ at2as 2 catra rema^a perice r-una- aqui ita qui/quo[i]?[/i]nll-s hanen possit hre- haiss dir es schmider/schmiden uff [auf] einer fel das chein [dog?] fln/flu? dach verloren wed
[/i]
2filex/2silex
Ist septen/septer[i]? parnos lineos 2 novos invic? ioth ba 2[/i]
post gallicantum troffa queste semente/seniente s• sein dendo/derdo[i]? den stamen das krutz ab mit einer dünner tirch/hesch[i]?[/i] messer a denet/denten? ? rotundi parni perforati site-scis und wollzu- generie eins nach den anderen pone in arundiner ut senim tarqat/tanqat?[i]?[/i] menum 2 vide? effectum"[/i]
RE: 116v - Koen G - 08-09-2016
If "anchi" is hips in Italian, isn't there a possibility that "anchi ton ola dabas" or something similar describes the injured body part as the first part of the spell? Note that the accompanying human figure does not look too mobile and might well have a hip problem.
RE: 116v - MarcoP - 08-09-2016
(08-09-2016, 12:26 AM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I see two important would-be-clues here: these two strange shapes - one in the beginning and the other is the circular shape which looks pretty like the one in the end of VMS f116v.
Hi Anton,
on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. there is a geomantic table with Latin examples of those two signs. They seem to be "upper case" versions of "F" and "V" (the "2" and the circular loop are flourishes applied to the basic shapes of the two letters).
The labels read (all feminine plural):
False (false)
Veridice (true)
Mediocrae (average)
(08-09-2016, 12:19 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Very good catch, Marco. And wow! Look at the hodgepodge of languages that follows in the next two paragraphs!
[By the way, anchi is "hips" in Italian, isn't it? but there doesn't appear to be a space between anchi and anada and I don't recognize basa in anything other than Spanish.]
I am glad you too find this interesting, JKP!
Thank you very much also for your transcription. I will certainly go into this! But now I have only time to comment on "anchi" and "basa".
I agree with you that in both the VMS and Clm 671, anchi- seems to be a prefix of a longer word (like the "anchiton" that Searcher documented).
In modern Italian hip is "anca" and hips is "anche".
"anche" also is the conjunction "also"...sorry
In Italian, "basa" is the 3rd person singular of the verb "basare" (to base): "egli basa" "he bases"
"bassa" is the singular feminine of the adjective "basso" (low). I am sure that "basa" for "bassa" can be find in North-Eastern dialects (Veneto, Trento).
In the same dialects, "basare" can replace the Italian "baciare" (to kiss).
RE: 116v - -JKP- - 08-09-2016
While I was at it, I decided I might as well transcribe the first part also (this too is quick and dirty, but at least it's a start):
+Aurea+Oxasichen+Italia nomina dei scripta imanulo [Emanuel?] argentea ar? Iaspide [Jasper] Z rus Iaspide parum radicis parme sigust aurit eis? Illa Epilenticus demarbo Caduca liberahit-+debalgut+Guttam+Jalachim+Siquoth Getharia +per? Seam parta urit Imprelio +per? invictus arit+anaphetes+acphat+aphatan+Esteana namen dei ineffabile per quod iasue [Jesus] deviant sapten rages Z fecit stare/stane solam si quoth supersa Illud gestaurit in victus per marebit Z Carcereum retiner ranum/ranerum poterit+anchianada+basa+si quoth uro/uno Illud namen super se gestaurit Iram ase re?p ellit Z leliciam addit+Gadeoy
And suddenly I realize what "Iran" might be in the previous quotation. It's probably "Iram" (as it is here) which would be the Biblical name Hiram.
Okay, now I have to get to work. No more VMS fun until this evening (or my lunch break).
RE: 116v - Anton - 08-09-2016
@Marco:
Thx. Although it's not too good that the circular object escaped us this time. I wonder why a capital letter in "Und" is used in the middle of the text.
If the first letter is capital "F", then the word is simply "Fuer" = English "for".
@Oocephalus:
Excellent! The cheek is the right place to write a spell if one's teeth ache. Do you have any idea why the "tintten" is "einer" and not simply "tintten"?
***
About decomposing anchiton further, I think that's the wrong track. Better to find an early greek language MS of those Alexander's deeds and look for "oladabas" there. The fact that anchiton is not separated from oladabas strongly suggests that this is an established expression.