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+--- Thread: 116v (/thread-437.html)
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RE: 116v - MarcoP - 03-09-2016
(03-09-2016, 04:04 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(03-09-2016, 11:31 AM)Marco Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
Can anybody shade some light on the "+" signs at the top of Clm 671 f44r?
That's where you make the sign of the cross while saying the incantation out loud. These are healing charms/spells. Notice they often invoke historic names passed down through the ages. Once charms became Christianized, the old Levantine and Greco-Roman names (usually gods and goddesses) were gradually supplanted with Christian names but some of the pre-Christian names are still included in the later medieval spells.
Thank you, JKP!
I have browsed some more ms Clm 671: it contains quite a few “+” signs.
I cannot understand much of f36v, but it does look like an incantation:
“+en+en+orto+da?en+adonay
+pantheon+Ema[n]uel+El?+Eloi”
Here is what I understand of the incantation at the bottom ("against the bite of a rabid dog"):
“Con[tra] mo[r]sum Canis rabidi ???
+chyran+chyrian+affaran+kaf=
affaran+stralia?+”
These look like a random mix of Greek and Latin words. I can understand a few of the words, but I am not sure all are meaningful.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. could be a mix of a German recipe and a Greek / Latin incantation.
Do we know of other examples of such mixes?
In general, if it is a recipe and/or incantation (whatever the meaning of lines 2 and 3), the first line should provide a “title” or “application” for the remedy: what it the recipe for? Johannes Albus and Davidsch interpret the last words of the first line as such:
- Albus: “umen[do] putriter” (for wet rot)
- David: “vinom purifier” (the “purification” i.e. neutralization of venom, if I understand correctly)
I have read the little that I can see on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. of the paper about Clm 671 I previously linked (“Fifteenth-Century Medicine and Magic at the University of Heidelberg”, Elisabeth I. Wade-Sirabian). Here are some passages that I find interesting. They provide some ideas on a kind of people that might have written something similar to these marginalia:
[In 1421] a fifteen-year old student, Conrad Buitzruss, enrolled at the University, and during his five years in Heidelberg, Buitzruss, or “Bynczruzs” as his surname is spelled in the university's record, kept a notebook, a fascinating collection of texts that juxtapose a number of diverse subjects, and is now housed as Clm 671 in the Bavarian State Library in Munich. This notebook contains an extraordinary array of entries on medicine and magic that document supernatural beliefs and practices regarding the prevention and healing of diseases.
…
Included in the manuscript's 182 folios are astronomical and astrological texts, notes on time-keeping, and most interestingly, a collection of instructions about how to fulfill domestic tasks, such as producing ink, catching fish, conserving wine, and preparing food.
…
Buitzruss included formulas of ritual magic in his compilation, referring both to Christian charms (which combine folk superstition and religious piety), and necromantic rituals.
…
Buitzruss's notebook also indicates his interest in collecting information on women's reproductive functions: he brings together, for example, methods for confirming virginity, gauging fertility, and for discovering the sex of an unborn child.
RE: 116v - -JKP- - 03-09-2016
Marco, Buitzruss's paragraphs are rather crowded and dense but they follow somewhat the same format as some healing charms I posted a while back by another author. You might want to glance at them for comparison (they're near the bottom):
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
In speaking generally about healing charms (not just Buitzruss's), they usually start with the malady, include remedies and/or charm words (the plus signs for genuflection are common), and sometimes end with a description of the results. Many of them instruct the person to write down the charm and wear it on the head or arm, or around the neck (probably in a pendant). Some of them include how many days to use the "remedy".
The charm portion that is written down and sometimes worn is often just a word or a few words, or invocations with the word diminishing down to some essential part to signify the disease diminishing as it heals. Sometimes almost the entire charm is written in initials (often the initials are Christian references). Not all words in charms are meant to be understood. Some are "power" words (a bit like speaking in tongues) meant to sound magical and to be a bit obscure. Some are simply corruptions of older words that are no longer understood.
As you noticed, the word Adonay/Adonai shows up fairly frequently in the Buitzruss charms. That's one of the oldest and commonest names I've seen in charms, so far. Names like Ezekiel and Zachariah show up frequently, as well.
P.S., I knew almost nothing about charms a couple of years ago, but once you become familiar with them they start showing up all over the place. I was surprised at how many I had overlooked the first time I scanned through old manuscripts but now tend to notice when I see them again.
RE: 116v - ChrisHagen - 04-09-2016
MarcoP: Just noting that "affaran" reads to me as "Czafferan", i.e. saffron.
The next word reads to me as "Czatafferan".
I think they are different words for the same ingredient. The author may have included ingredients from different sources in different languages, not realizing that they were the same herb.
Or perhaps I'm wrong, and there is some variety of saffron known with a prefix in some language.
I feel quite confident on the "saffron" interpretation, though!
RE: 116v - MarcoP - 04-09-2016
(03-09-2016, 06:10 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Marco, Buitzruss's paragraphs are rather crowded and dense but they follow somewhat the same format as some healing charms I posted a while back by another author. You might want to glance at them for comparison (they're near the bottom):
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
In speaking generally about healing charms (not just Buitzruss's), they usually start with the malady, include remedies and/or charm words (the plus signs for genuflection are common), and sometimes end with a description of the results. Many of them instruct the person to write down the charm and wear it on the head or arm, or around the neck (probably in a pendant). Some of them include how many days to use the "remedy".
Thank you, JKP. I am rather sure I read your blog post in the past, but rereading it now I appreciated your description of the structure of charms that you included also in your post above. Charms are similar to proper medical recipes in that they start with stating to which condition they apply. And you provide an alternative reading of the first line:
- Albus: “umen[do] putriter” (for wet rot)
- David: “vinom purifier” (the “purification” i.e. neutralization of venom, if I understand correctly)
- J.K. Petersen "pox leben" or "pox leber" (pox or the liver)
(04-09-2016, 02:37 PM)ChrisHagen Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.MarcoP: Just noting that "affaran" reads to me as "Czafferan", i.e. saffron.
The next word reads to me as "Czatafferan".
I think they are different words for the same ingredient. The author may have included ingredients from different sources in different languages, not realizing that they were the same herb.
Or perhaps I'm wrong, and there is some variety of saffron known with a prefix in some language.
I feel quite confident on the "saffron" interpretation, though!
Thanks also to you, Chris.
This is about You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.:
Your reading is interesting, because saffron is a word that one expects to find in a recipe, rather than in a charm. Even if charms are still rather unpredictable to me
"chyran" seems to me an allusion to "Kyrie" (Greek for "o Lord", common in Christian liturgie): Kyrie would fit with an incantation, together with Adonay, Eloi, Emmanuel etc.
Also, the repetition and alteration Czafferan , Czatafferan is difficult to explain: I think Czatafferan is rather strange in itself. But a repetition like this is very similar to the examples in JKP's post (e.g Abgracula, Abraculauß, Aburacula, Abraculuß).
I think that it's clear that the fourth line of 116v is a fragment of a recipe in German.
I still think that these two points must still find a convincing explanation:
- What is the recipe for?
- Lines 2 and 3 seem to make part of an incantation; but can incantations mix with recipes as it seems to happen in f116v?
RE: 116v - Searcher - 04-09-2016
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RE: 116v - -JKP- - 04-09-2016
Some charms are only incantations. Those intended for going into battle are often this way and are sometimes inscribed on swords or amulets.
Healing charms are sometimes only incantations (I suspect these more "magical" charms were intended for the terminally ill) but some included a combination of incantations and medicinal herbs (often with instructions to wear the charm or the potion for ___ days). So a charm can include both words to be chanted or written and a medicinal concoction.
(04-09-2016, 05:51 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
(04-09-2016, 02:37 PM)ChrisHagen Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.MarcoP: Just noting that "affaran" reads to me as "Czafferan", i.e. saffron.
The next word reads to me as "Czatafferan".
I think they are different words for the same ingredient. The author may have included ingredients from different sources in different languages, not realizing that they were the same herb.
Or perhaps I'm wrong, and there is some variety of saffron known with a prefix in some language.
I feel quite confident on the "saffron" interpretation, though!
Thanks also to you, Chris.
This is about Clm 671 f.42v:
Your reading is interesting, because saffron is a word that one expects to find in a recipe, rather than in a charm. Even if charms are still rather unpredictable to me
"chyran" seems to me an allusion to "Kyrie" (Greek for "o Lord", common in Christian liturgie): Kyrie would fit with an incantation, together with Adonay, Eloi, Emmanuel etc.
Also, the repetition and alteration Czafferan , Czatafferan is difficult to explain: I think Czatafferan is rather strange in itself. But a repetition like this is very similar to the examples in JKP's post (e.g Abgracula, Abraculauß, Aburacula, Abraculuß).
I think that it's clear that the fourth line of 116v is a fragment of a recipe in German.
I still think that these two points must still find a convincing explanation:
- What is the recipe for?
- Lines 2 and 3 seem to make part of an incantation; but can incantations mix with recipes as it seems to happen in f116v?
Here's what it looks like to me. Against/For the bite of a rabid dog... I cannot make out the 5th word but the rest is reasonably clear:
"Contra morsum Canis rabidi scrsa/scersa ?ran + chÿran + chÿrian + kafferan + katafferan + stralia +"
Since Chÿran is quite possibly Chiron, I think "scrsa" MIGHT be Ceres, whose name is often invoked in charms and which, interestingly, shows up on VMS 116v, as well, but... I can't be sure because that whacky mystery letter looks like a capital J or I. It almost looks like "scrsa Iran" but I doubt that's what it is.
"kafferan" MIGHT be kaffera which was added to a toxic concoction to enhance intellectual skills and attention or it might be another god or, as was suggested above, maybe something like saffron. Another possibility is "kaffara" which is fasting but I haven't seen many concepts related to fasting in charms. They are usually more about adding something than denying something (probably so the doctor-apothecaries can line their pockets).
It doesn't seem probable that the odd letter is a long-S or F (if it is, it's backwards and I didn't see signs of dyslexia elsewhere in the manuscript) but am not at all sure of what he intended with the shapes that look like scrsaIran.
RE: 116v - MarcoP - 07-09-2016
Again in Buitzruss Clm 671 (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.).
There's a diagram associating planets and metals.
The word kupffer ("kupfer" in modern German: copper) might be vaguely similar to the last word of line 1 (putpfer?).
Is it a possibility worth considering?
Other ideas for this word?
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (46r) "mihi" is spelled "michi".
Third line:
... + deus + alpha + et O + sit michi
+ p[ro]tectio + ...
[may] god alpha and omega be my protection (be to me protection)
RE: 116v - Searcher - 07-09-2016
(07-09-2016, 11:16 AM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Again in Buitzruss Clm 671 (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.).
There's a diagram associating planets and metals.
The word kupffer ("kupfer" in modern German: copper) might be vaguely similar to the last word of line 1 (putpfer?).
Is it a possibility worth considering?
Other ideas for this word?
I suggested the word "kampfer" written as "kmpfer", as well.
RE: 116v - Helmut Winkler - 07-09-2016
Marco.
I think the last word in line 1 is "putrifer", at least it looks like it it to me when I analyze the single letters. The first line could be "poxleber p[ri]m[u]m putrifer", with could mean "Goats liver is as first to go into putrefaction", which would be what really happens. I feel quite sure of the reading, less of the translation and the line would very likely be a probatio pennae.
RE: 116v - Anton - 07-09-2016
I also considered the posibility of the first letter to be a "k".
"kut" would mean "Tausch" (exchange) in MHD, or alternatively a synonym for "kutte" which seems to have a variety of meanings
the problem is with "pfer"