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+-- Forum: Voynich Research (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-27.html)
+--- Forum: Marginalia (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-45.html)
+--- Thread: 116v (/thread-437.html)
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RE: 116v - Searcher - 27-04-2016
I think, I was wrong assuming that the symbol "8" means "s" here, probably, my first thought that it is "d" and "t" was closer to a solution. The fact of the matter is that I suppose that there are two characters from the enciphered text of the VMs in the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. marginalia which are added in the words of the plain text. I don't take into account "aror shcc9".
"8 "= "d" and "t" (dabat, portat, valten)
"loop-symbol" = "s", "os" and "us" (miltost).
I'd note that supposed "loop-symbol" is rather masked in the illegible "o".
What if "anchiton" and "michiton" are correct, either? I mean that the author could write the words "michi ton" in such way to make a play on words. Let's assume, this is a recipe and a charm for making of the "anchiton", it may look like this:
"anchiton: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Öla dabat You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. tc (te?) teer cere portat + N + "fix + marix + morix + vix + alma maria"
In English: "He/she gave me clay, oil, (miltos?) softest, then he/she brings tar, wax" …
Ton - "Lehm" (clay)
Öla - possibly, "Öle" (oil)
miltost - if I'm not mistaken, "mildest" (softest). Possibly, there is a play on words, too.
tc - maybe, Latin "tunc" (then)
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. - "walten" (to rule), ubren - ? (obren? uhren?)
Much of this leads to Middle High German. Please, correct me, if I'm wrong.
But the main thing is that mentioned two cipher characters, according to my theory and deciphering method, have the same meaning here and in the main text. All this time I tried to find something common between the enciphered text and the plain text of the marginalia, so I've find nothing, besides two characters and their meaning. It seems that "aror shcc9" relates to the enciphered text, but have nothing in common with the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. marginalia, except, maybe, the last line, but I'm not sure.
RE: 116v - Davidsch - 31-08-2016
![[Image: vinom-f116v.jpg]](http://voynich.webpoint.nl/wp-content/uploads/vinom-f116v.jpg)
If the charm says “vinom purifier”, the entire line could read “vox leben vinom purifier”
A mix of English, Latin and German, typical for late Old English.
Something like: speak out loud, for life, this venom purifier.
Quote:[font=Georgia,]A snake came crawling, it bit a man.It is also probable that the Nine Herbs or Nine Herbs Charm, written mainly in Old English and Latin, are discussed elsewhere in the VMS, for example on the Rosette page. But more about that on another page.
Then Woden took nine glory-twigs,
Smote the serpent so that it flew into nine parts.
There apple brought this pass against poison,
That she nevermore would enter her house
[/font]
[copied from by blog]
RE: 116v - MarcoP - 31-08-2016
(31-08-2016, 10:27 AM)Davidsch Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
If the charm says “vinom purifier”, the entire line could read “vox leben vinom purifier”
Hi David,
in my opinion, it can be "vinon" or "vmon" or "viii on" (like "8 ounces") but not "vinom" (there are three vertical strokes before the "o" and two after it).
Maybe this has been discussed previously: what about a wiki page where we add all the possible transcriptions (and when available translations) for each line of this page?
RE: 116v - Koen G - 31-08-2016
(31-08-2016, 05:13 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Maybe this has been discussed previously: what about a wiki page where we add all the possible transcriptions (and when available translations) for each line of this page?
Marco - I proposed something similar a while ago in the project suggestions. This would help us a lot, especially if people like you with some expertise in reading various scripts get on board.
RE: 116v - davidjackson - 31-08-2016
We do have a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. for this, where it would be simple to do a comparision table of all the different readings.
I actually started work on this but lost the file before saving it
I'll try to compile the information afresh.
LATER: I've added a number of transcriptions. I'll try to add some more tomorrow, or feel free to add any other complete transcriptions you know of (ensuring you add source and other information, following examples). Once we have enough there, I (or someone) can arrange them in columns per letter and we can see what the majority consensus is.
Further technical comments on this subject should be in a separate thread (keep this one on topic) or via PM to me, please.
RE: 116v - MarcoP - 01-09-2016
Thank you for adding the transcriptions, David!
I also noticed that famous 1954 Panofsky's letter mentioned. Rene, do you know if it was ever integrally published? It would be great to have an online scan
RE: 116v - Koen G - 01-09-2016
I was thinking more of a bottom-up approach, where all possible readings for glyphs/ligatures are listed in a table and different words/languages can be more easily considered.
Then we could see at a glance which combinations form what looks like words, and then just finds translations for those "words" in any possible language.
Take a very simple example like "der mus del". Wiktionary gives translations in 15 languages for der, 18 for mus and 28 for del...
Edit: sorry david, I did not see your edit. It seems like we are thinking the same. I'll make a new thread for discussion.
RE: 116v - MarcoP - 01-09-2016
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. you can read the transcription and translation of a recipe from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
“So du zefest in dir siest so nim stieres gall und pint sy in ain woll und pint das auf dey nabel es zerlegt sich gar”
[should you be too firm inside, then take the gall of a bull and put it into some wool and tie that upon your navel and your insides will be loosened]
If I understand correctly, "so nim" ("nimm" in modern German is the imperative of "nehmen") is translated "then take". The same as Johannes Albus did for f116v.
PS: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is a lovely mix of Latin and German from the same manuscript:
"Item si vis venaturam facere so nim aines totten menschen haupt...."
RE: 116v - Davidsch - 01-09-2016
I am confused. Must i discuss this now on 166wiki , even though it is not there in the list?
---
@marco, yes i saw that we are missing a leg for the m in vinom.
We can discuss every letter in my line "vox leben vinom purifier”
that is fine but i am afraid i am not capable of coming up with paleographical arguments for every letter, the same with my "mud miel".
Why not? Because i have underlying research & reasoning for the text i came up with. It is not that I tried to decipher this text in the margin (same for the mud miel) but part of this text came from another quote & research i found.
So please consider my solution as one where the writer made a writing mistake. I am convinced there are many more to be discovered.
---
Why must always everything be strict and perfect in the manuscript ?
Holding the crossbow wrong, washing with the wrong hand. If a hand has 6 fingers, or a flower has the wrong roots or the root has the wrong leaves,
the sunflower was not imported yet, the berries have the wrong color, or the water has the wrong coloring. Sometimes history changes things, because our perception is wrong.
RE: 116v - Searcher - 01-09-2016
(01-09-2016, 01:16 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.PS: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is a lovely mix of Latin and German from the same manuscript:
"Item si vis venaturam facere so nim aines totten menschen haupt...."
Thanks for PS.