help on the 4 - Printable Version

help on the 4 - Printable Version

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help on the 4 - Davidsch - 29-02-2016

In different documents we can see some characters that resemble the 'gallow' characters,
but not in combination with the very straight character 4.

The number 4 used in manuscripts in the period 1300-1475 is rare, because they often uses the [Image: 4.jpg]

for the number 4

Als ligatures that resemble a four are not quite the same as the Voynich 4.

Often you see a 4 but it is an accidental 4 based on a + like this (vita + felicitas) [Image: vita.jpg]

Now, i have found some presentations of the 4, but i am not always sure what they mean in the context.

Does anyone have other paleographical examples of the 4 in that period, that would be interesting as well of course

Can you help with the transcripiton ?

a)
(STORY reports a.o. on the first three voyages of Columbus)

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The red circled ligature is? e quattro

[Image: Trevisan%20manuscript1.jpg]

b)
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[Image: 4_b.jpg]

RE: help on the 4 - Anton - 29-02-2016

I remember we discussed the matter of "4" with Brian Cham in regard to the curious inscription in the centre of the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. flower, and he pointed out that the "4" shape was already being used to designate the digit of "four" at the time when the VMS was created, along with the older shape.

You can find that discussion in his blog (briancham1994 @ wordpress) somewhere in 2014 in the comments to one of his posts dedicated to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (there were two).

RE: help on the 4 - MarcoP - 29-02-2016

Hi David,
I think the first example you posted is "Vita et felicitas": the 4 is created by joining an "e" and a "t".

The transcription of (a) is available here:
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I cannot read (b1).
I think (b2) is "et" again:
Sic fuit primus imp[er]ator declinato et exempto (should have been declinatus et exemptus)
So the first ruler was subsided and removed

RE: help on the 4 - Davidsch - 29-02-2016

(29-02-2016, 03:18 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I remember we discussed the matter of "4" with Brian Cham in regard to the curious inscription in the centre of the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. flower, and he pointed out that the "4" shape was already being used to designate the digit of "four" at the time when the VMS was created, along with the older shape.

You can find that discussion in his blog (briancham1994 @ wordpress) somewhere in 2014 in the comments to one of his posts dedicated to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (there were two).

yes, indeed good point, i forgot, the 4 is used in particular MS, especially in the UK around year 1500+

Thanks anyway.

c)
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[Image: 4_c.jpg]

et per nativitatem dei .......
dei, et per diem Iuditii ......
et per 4or animalia ante ........

RE: help on the 4 - MarcoP - 29-02-2016

Also interesting Berengarius Tertius (3y) and Berengarius Quartus (4ty).

RE: help on the 4 - -JKP- - 29-02-2016

a. Rather than a 4, to me it looks like a pen slip so that it would read "...e uno certo fratello dela bayla...". If you look at the third line, you'll see 1493 with a contemporary "4" with a descender, so it's unlikely the one you noted (with no descender) is a "4".

b. It's a bit difficult to see from the handwriting whether it's intorum, nitorum or uitorum (or vitorum) but in that context, the "4" shape is usually the Latin -rum suffix. Given the context of the statements about emperor Otto, I'm guessing it's intorum.

c. I'm really not sure of the third one since if it means "quarto" the "o" is usually written smaller (and often superscripted) and this one is followed by "r" which is a combination I don't recognize. The "o" can also sometimes be an abbreviation for "modo" depending on context but I don't think I've seen it paired with a "4".

When you post snippets of text, it helps to get a slightly wider shot, so we can see how the scribe writes a variety of letters and uses the other abbreviations. Some scribes had very individual ways of abbreviating (sometimes nonstandard) but they were typically somewhat consistent over the course of a couple of pages. So is there a chance we can get a wider shot of that third one (a shot that includes the letter "p"). I'm not certain what you designated as "per" is per without seeing more of the handwriting. It could be "pro" or a flourished abbreviation for something else.

RE: help on the 4 - Helmut Winkler - 01-03-2016

(29-02-2016, 03:45 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hi David,
I think the first example you posted is "Vita et felicitas": the 4 is created by joining an "e" and a "t".

The transcription of (a) is available here:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

I cannot read (b1).
I think (b2) is "et" again:
Sic fuit primus imp[er]ator declinato et exempto (should have been declinatus et exemptus)
So the first ruler was subsided and removed

Hic fuit primus imperator

and b1 looks like 'eius'