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+--- Thread: Big Red Weirdos (/thread-423.html)
RE: Big Red Weirdos - VViews - 08-12-2018
(07-12-2018, 11:23 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In the past I've suggested it was a V shape and also that it might be a pilcrow and got pooh-poohed for both suggestions.
The "smoke" symbol above one of the weirdos was very frequently placed in that position when the letter was a V (to symbolize "ver"), but I got pooh-poohed for that suggestion too.
I finally gave up talking about red weirdos.
JKP,
the idea that the big red weirdos might be paragraph markers was one of the first mentioned on this thread, and nobody "poo-pooed" it.
In fact it is an idea that has been brought up since at least 2010 (see: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.)
Please go back to the beginning of this thread and you will see that the idea that it could be an embellished initial was also welcomed, and not "poo pooed"... all people ever asked for was examples/links to back up statements.
RE: Big Red Weirdos - -JKP- - 08-12-2018
(08-12-2018, 02:38 AM)VViews Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(07-12-2018, 11:23 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In the past I've suggested it was a V shape and also that it might be a pilcrow and got pooh-poohed for both suggestions.
The "smoke" symbol above one of the weirdos was very frequently placed in that position when the letter was a V (to symbolize "ver"), but I got pooh-poohed for that suggestion too.
I finally gave up talking about red weirdos.
JKP,
the idea that the big red weirdos might be paragraph markers was one of the first mentioned on this thread, and nobody "poo-pooed" it.
In fact it is an idea that has been brought up since at least 2010 (see: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.)
Please go back to the beginning of this thread and you will see that the idea that it could be an embellished initial was also welcomed, and not "poo pooed"... all people ever asked for was examples/links to back up statements.
I'm talking about before there was a forum (and on other sites). One of the reasons I participate on this forum is because there appear to be people more willing to consider a variety of ideas.
RE: Big Red Weirdos - Koen G - 08-12-2018
I never went looking for the weirdos before, but this time I selected a few manuscripts with such red initials. I didn't actually expect to find something so similar though. It must be relatively rare.
It might be worth it to find the time and place where this MS was manufactured, if only to facilitate a search for similar MSS. The info seems to be lacking from the catalogue entry though. I'm on my phone now, can't do too advanced searches.
RE: Big Red Weirdos - Helmut Winkler - 08-12-2018
The catalogue doesn't give much
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only 15 th. and the content of the ms.
The ms. is second half 15th c., after 1444 because therre is an epitaph of Bruni by Enea Silvio and to me it looks Italian,
Just a remark The ms. is a good example what different hands are and what the gallows are, i.e.'Versalien'
RE: Big Red Weirdos - Linda - 08-12-2018
I noticed there is a character on some astrolabes that remind me of one of the weirdos. It is one of the characters near the beginning of the horizontal writing near the bottom. Have seen it around the edges of others.
![[Image: isaslabe2lrg.jpg]](http://www.sites.hps.cam.ac.uk/starry/isaslabe2lrg.jpg)
RE: Big Red Weirdos - -JKP- - 08-12-2018
Arabic script is very calligraphic.
A great many beautiful tiles, fabrics, ceramics, and other items are decorated with Arabic script in the same way that other cultures use curlicues. When it's written with a calligraphic flare, it's possible to find almost any shape in decorative Arabic script (especially if the script includes abbreviations) and sometimes two letters next to each other will look like a familiar shape.
I don't know Arabic, I only know part of the alphabet and a few simple words but I suppose it's possible the "left wing" of the "seagull" is dal but then I'm not sure what the "right wing" would be. Arabic letters don't usually lean in the backwards direction except those that go below the baseline.
Or... perhaps the symbol you are referencing is a variation on this symbol which is on a different 'labe:
RE: Big Red Weirdos - Linda - 09-12-2018
(08-12-2018, 10:38 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Arabic script is very calligraphic.
A great many beautiful tiles, fabrics, ceramics, and other items are decorated with Arabic script in the same way that other cultures use curlicues. When it's written with a calligraphic flare, it's possible to find almost any shape in decorative Arabic script (especially if the script includes abbreviations) and sometimes two letters next to each other will look like a familiar shape.
I don't know Arabic, I only know part of the alphabet and a few simple words but I suppose it's possible the "left wing" of the "seagull" is dal but then I'm not sure what the "right wing" would be. Arabic letters don't usually lean in the backwards direction except those that go below the baseline.
Or... perhaps the symbol you are referencing is a variation on this symbol which is on a different 'labe:
It is not always there, but i have found a few more. I wish i knew more about the language but i dont know its meaning or what to call it as yet. You are likely right that it is two letters together, i can see a few examples of one side or the other i think.
Here it is more than once, horizontally at about 3 oclock on the circle, this one looks very much like the red weirdo to me. Another like it on the curved edge at around 4 45 ish, one at a bit past six, and not the same, but one that looks taller and more symmetrical at around 7, again on the curved edge, mirror image location to the second one mentioned.
![[Image: isaslabereligionlrg.jpg]](http://www.sites.hps.cam.ac.uk/starry/isaslabereligionlrg.jpg)
RE: Big Red Weirdos - Linda - 09-12-2018
This one has similar glyphs at similar places, 3 5 7 but this time 3 looks different from 5 and 7.oclock. also on the dial near 3, center of 5 ģlyphs, there is what looks a bit like the second red weirdo, but with more of a tail?
![[Image: 3261866968_9fa924ac7a.jpg]](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-pUQqGkRrguw/USrMKYBek7I/AAAAAAAAADw/ivT8IhMznhI/s1600/3261866968_9fa924ac7a.jpg)
RE: Big Red Weirdos - -JKP- - 09-12-2018
I notice the three bird shapes in Post #57 have two little tick marks under the "wings".
RE: Big Red Weirdos - bi3mw - 21-12-2021
(26-02-2016, 01:34 AM)VViews Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I'm curious to hear what views the forum members may have about what the weirdos are or look like, and whether perhaps we might gather any new insight into them.
Any thoughts?
Here the "Big Red Weirdos" on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. are compared with representations from Johann Christoph Sommerhoff's "Lexicon pharmaceutico-chymicum". Although the book is much too late for the VMS (1701), it is not impossible that Sommerhoff himself copied the characters from much older works.
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The video is unfortunately in German but understandable with subtitles set.