+- The Voynich Ninja (https://www.voynich.ninja)
+-- Forum: Voynich Research (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-27.html)
+--- Forum: Voynich Talk (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-6.html)
+--- Thread: Big Red Weirdos (/thread-423.html)
RE: Big Red Weirdos - -JKP- - 29-08-2016
(28-08-2016, 05:39 PM)Botis Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Also the squiggle -- that symbol shows up in Cappelli as an abbreviation usually meaning er. (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..)
Yes, the squiggle is frequently "er" but also sometimes "ir" or "re". I have examples of all of them but unfortunately insufficient time right now to dig them up and post images.
Also of interest is the orientation of the squiggle. It's frequently vertical, but sometimes horizontal (same meaning) and I've even come across a couple of manuscripts (15th c if I remember correctly) where the scribes made a distinction between vertical and horizontal to distinguish between "er" and "ir", but this is quite rare, one usually serves for both and which one it is, is recognized by context.
RE: Big Red Weirdos - Koen G - 24-02-2017
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Probably a coincidence
RE: Big Red Weirdos - voynichbombe - 25-03-2017
ξ
ϓ
ϒ
ϔ
Ϋ
Ῠ
ɤ
One can find all these in Unicode. They look different, depending on the font (e.g. Noto Serif).
RE: Big Red Weirdos - nablator - 29-07-2018
Not the same shape (L) but a very similar style.
BSB-Hss Clm 3712 (1478-1494)
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: Big Red Weirdos - -JKP- - 30-07-2018
It is a similar style.
Note also that the Latin abbreviations are a similar style to VMS glyphs. There is EVA-y (abbreviation "-us") at the end of two words, EVA-m (the rounded form, which is the "cis" character in languages that use Latin scribal conventions), abbreviation tails on the "a" and "u", and a straight macron.
Note that EVA-y is also used at the beginning of the word "confessorum" to represent "con-" on the fourth line.
There is also a "cap" (a curved macron) on "vero" and "qui" on the first line, the shape that is found on EVA-sh. And note the long macron (for multiple-letter apostrophe) on "prbr" at the end of the second line.
Something I've mentioned in other posts, but it might be worth mentioning again is that the "cis" glyph in Latin is often used as a line-end or paragraph-end marker in German (in addtion to representing "cis"). The reason I've mentioned it a few times is because it think it MIGHT serve the same purpose in the VMS.
RE: Big Red Weirdos - Koen G - 07-12-2018
Not sure what this is, initial V?
Source: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: Big Red Weirdos - -JKP- - 07-12-2018
(07-12-2018, 10:21 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Not sure what this is, initial V?
Source: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I think so... New section, embellished initial. If I'm reading it right, it's "Vir quidam..."
Let me look at the original. I need to check his handwriting to see if it's z or r, back in a minute (it takes me a few moments to get used to a person's handwriting, I notice he writes "C" like "E")...
Yes, it's embellished initial for a new section. If I'm reading this right, and expanding the abbreviations correctly, it says:
Vir quida[m] sin[e]x capie[n]s in nocte sopore[m]
Cu[m] m'l'r [mulier?] sua credit adesse parim
Clamitat o m'l'r [mulier?] m' mechus adesse videt[ur] - (note the 9 char in mechus expands to "us")
Hec ait in sompno [somno?] par m' forma patet - [m' looks like it might be his abbreviation for "mihi" but I'm not sure, it can mean other things]
Percipit hu[n]c ....
RE: Big Red Weirdos - -JKP- - 07-12-2018
Other versions of embellished V from the same text:
And within the text, it has dots added to the left stem:
RE: Big Red Weirdos - Koen G - 07-12-2018
Thanks JKP. So the initial on the first page of the Voynich manuscript might be a big red V. Seems like Willie did it after all
RE: Big Red Weirdos - -JKP- - 07-12-2018
(07-12-2018, 11:19 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Thanks JKP. So the initial on the first page of the Voynich manuscript might be a big red V. Seems like Willie did it after all
In the past I've suggested it was a V shape and also that it might be a pilcrow and got pooh-poohed for both suggestions.
The "smoke" symbol above one of the weirdos was very frequently placed in that position when the letter was a V (to symbolize "ver"), but I got pooh-poohed for that suggestion too.
I finally gave up talking about red weirdos.
Glad to see you found an example of an embellished vee that is so similar. Ironically, I've looked at this manuscript (the ribbon drawn on the frontis caught my attention), but I guess I never got through it far enough to notice the Vee shapes (or if I did, I don't remember). Good find.