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+--- Thread: Image processing, highlighting hidden details (/thread-4192.html)
RE: Image processing, highlighting hidden details - merrimacga - 15-03-2024
(14-03-2024, 12:43 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I'm sorry that I have been too brief (as so often), leading to confusion.
In my plots, the bottom right corner of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. shows nothing, and that is not the area I meant.
The area I meant is below the central pool, but still above the bottom pool on the other side (f75v).
Just to clarify what I am saying: this process brings up structures, and many of these are already (partly) visible in the original image:
- folds and blemishes
- shine-through from whatever is on the other side of the same folio.
- In some cases also print-off from the opposing folio
Others are not so easily identified. The area below the central pool is just the very first example.
I am not saying that there's a face or a cloud bunny. Just that it is similar in style as some of the shine through.
On the same page (f75r) at the height of the central pool, one can see the elongated horizontal pool from f75v.
Also, on f75v, the entire structure in the top half of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. dominates the image.
This might help illustrate Rene's comments. Here are You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. for comparison (you might want to zoom this page or right click each image to open in a new tab so you can zoom in):
Top left You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. from the Folio Browser. Top right You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. from Rene's images.
Bottom left You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. from the Folio Browser flipped horizontal. Bottom right You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. from Rene's images flipped horizontal.
![[Image: 1006208.jpg]](https://www.voynich.ninja/browser/i/800/1006208.jpg)
![[Image: 1006208-v.png]](https://voynich.nu/data/pics/1006208-v.png)
Weirdly, and unrelated, I noticed something else about You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (Folio Browser version). Cock your head to the left and tell me if you don't see what looks like diagonal handwriting. I realize it is just a trick of how the glyphs are lined up on the page and it probably doesn't mean anything. Weird.
RE: Image processing, highlighting hidden details - RobGea - 15-03-2024
(14-03-2024, 12:58 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.When going from 8 bits colour depth to 4 bits, you could in principle pick any combination of 4 bits.
I am guessing that you picked the four highest...
Have you tried any of the others?
Hehe, you give me way to much credit, i just put in a call to Python Image Library and it took care of the rest. I guess it would use the 4 highest.
So, no, i did not try any of the other bit combos.
RE: Image processing, highlighting hidden details - Bernd - 16-03-2024
(14-03-2024, 02:27 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The easier exercise is to just colour code (stretch) the ink colours. This highlights (among other things like illumination or the state of the parchment) any changes in ink. I show two obvious cases on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
Would this method be useful to identify potential amendments or overwriting of the text?
It may be a coincidence with this low sample size but is the distribution of oddly colored glyphs random?
The blue text on 115r has individual letters in orange in between, often in the middle of words. often '-o-' or '-l-'. Also word- initial 'ch-' and word-end '-r'. Also some 'd'. How can this be explained?
The red text on 105v appers quite evenly colored except for a -chy in the first and another -chy and a qo- in the 2nd paragraph which are much lighter. In the 2nd last paragraph two word-end 'y' stand out.
On another note - is the color uniformity of the red text an artifact of oversaturation (text is simply black)? And were those text breaks assigned to the same or different scribes?
RE: Image processing, highlighting hidden details - ReneZ - 16-03-2024
I added a few more images to the second page: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
These are from quire 13 and show a few more interesting artefacts.
I think that overall the variation in colour/darkness is very hard to interpret.
RE: Image processing, highlighting hidden details - Moonchild - 16-03-2024
[quote="ReneZ" pid='58137' dateline='1710569551']
I added a few more images to the second page: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
I am looking at these files, it is very interesting to see what you have done. The gradient effect on the text is fascinating.
Can you explain to me please why you talk about illumination and illumination effect when there is no visible gilding in the manuscript?
When you say illumination do you mean gold foil or gold leaves?
RE: Image processing, highlighting hidden details - nablator - 16-03-2024
A good test for multispectral image processing posted by Lisa Fagin Davis: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
The image in higher resolution is here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Good result with DStretch: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: Image processing, highlighting hidden details - ReneZ - 17-03-2024
(16-03-2024, 04:37 PM)Moonchild Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Can you explain to me please why you talk about illumination and illumination effect when there is no visible gilding in the manuscript?
When you say illumination do you mean gold foil or gold leaves?
I mean the effect of an oblique light source above the page, which may make the image more dark on one side than the other. Not just the ink but everything.
RE: Image processing, highlighting hidden details - Aga Tentakulus - 17-03-2024
Interesting.
I only know the process from rock carvings (carved in stone).
You have to wait until night falls, and the side lighting makes everything visible.
RE: Image processing, highlighting hidden details - Moonchild - 17-03-2024
I mean the effect of an oblique light source above the page, which may make the image more dark on one side than the other. Not just the ink but everything.
[/quote]
Wow that is truly amazing, I get it! And I think it also supports my theory when I say it is 3d. What I feel you are showing is the reflection in the text. We are seeing gradient, reflection, shadow highlight kind of effect in 2d with your technique...
I assume this is not a common thing in manuscripts, on the text, or is it?
This is what I think. The manuscript has multiple layers of ciphers. One of the layers, ( just regarding text, not illustrations ) are each word = a letter or number. Then, there is the part where some paragraphs turn into figures maybe when the page's ink has dissolved and dried up.. then what you are showing would make sense in creating a 3d figure including the shadow, highlight, reflection etc..that's why we see a gradient.
Folio 76v is a great example. I will demonstrate exactly what I mean on folio 76v shortly, this is a very interesting page...
RE: Image processing, highlighting hidden details - Moonchild - 19-03-2024
This part on the text is difficult to show clearly. I have posted other elements including this one on another thread.