+- The Voynich Ninja (https://www.voynich.ninja)
+-- Forum: Voynich Research (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-27.html)
+--- Forum: Provenance & history (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-44.html)
+--- Thread: Provenance and history of the Voynich Manuscript (hypothesis) (/thread-4188.html)
Pages:
1
2
Provenance and history of the Voynich Manuscript (hypothesis) - amelkin - 09-03-2024
The Voynich manuscript was created by Dr. Johannes Hartlieb (1400 – 1468) in 1448/49. He was in the employment of Albrecht III of Bavaria-Munich from 1440, and of Albrecht's son Sigmund from 1456.
The husband of Anna von Braunschweig-Grubenhagen, Duke Albrecht III of Bavaria-Munich, married Anna out of necessity and continued to love Agnes Bernauer, who was executed in 1435. Anna was tormented by jealousy, especially strong after 1447. Then Albrecht asked his personal physician (Leibarzt) Johannes Hartlieb to direct Anna's attention to practices in the field of white magic, in which Anna was seriously interested.
At the request of Albrecht III Dr. Hartlieb on the basis of his drafts ordered to the scribes the "Chiromancy" and the "Voynich Manuscript" (the "Hartlieb Manuscript"), which were urgently created in the period from 1448 to 1449. Both books depicted a distorted reality, making them ideal divination tools.
"Chiromancy" was created by Dr. Hartlieb in 1448. However, Anna quickly became bored with hand fortune telling (palm reading). Anna needed something more mysterious.
Then started Dr. Hartlieb, in agreement with Albrecht, with the creation of the "Voynich Manuscript", which was based on various secret writing systems and old manuscripts from the early 15th century. There was a lack of time. Johannes Hartlieb had a team of trustworthy scribes and illustrators in the greater Munich area and in Augsburg. Based on secret writing systems such as "Kaldaisch", which Dr. Hartlieb perfectly mastered, since he was also a court diplomat, he created a special font "Voynichese" and a "Vocabulary", as well as drafts of various sections of the future "Voynich Manuscript".
90% of the "Voynich Manuscript" was just science fiction nonsense. The text didn't make any sense. Incidentally, Hartlieb has a manuscript on astrology (Johannes Hartlieb et al. (1448/56)), in which he gives various examples of secret writings, including "Kaldaisch". Only less than 10% of the astrological text of the "Voynich Manuscript" could be deciphered.
The scribes, who numbered not less than twelve, were given sketches of the various sections of the manuscript, as well as a large quantity of old parchment of various sizes. They were in a hurry and didn't keep the lines straight. They were also allowed to create their own text based on Hartlieb's rules. The fact that the text of the manuscript was created by several people at the same time is indicated by the presence of at least five parts of the manuscript with differences in handwriting, vocabulary and placement on the page. (Lisa Fagin Davis (2022, 2023))
Each scribe had to create at least 12 zodiac diagrams in a relatively free form, in addition to their own text, in collaboration with the illustrator. Some scribes were artists themselves. The zodiac diagrams in the Voynich manuscript were male and female. In total, there were 12 or more zodiac charts for each zodiac sign. Since some of the parchment was not cut into equal parts, some long sheets contained three zodiac diagrams or even more. Many zodiac diagrams differed from each other in drawings and inscriptions. Later this was interpreted as taking into account the characteristics of the customer category (guests of "Anna's Salon").
Dr. Hartlieb gave Anna the "Voynich Manuscript" in 1449. He presented the manuscript as the work of an early 15th-century magician, possibly Abraham von Worms. Anna was very happy and with the help of Dr. Hartlieb to conduct astrological sessions at parties in "Anna's Salon". The manuscript had not previously been stapled together and consisted of individual sheets. Anna conducted astrological sessions using these zodiac charts, so they were always in use and often kept in different places. Most of them were later lost or given away.
Dr. Hartlieb helped Anna to "decipher" the manuscript and made notes ("Michitonese") on the pages. It is also possible that the "Michitonese" inscriptions were the improvisation of one of the hired scribes.
During the sessions, Anna prophesied using zodiac charts. Anna predicted events in the life (fate) of the client (session guest) for a week, a month and a year and recommended various herbal mixtures and water treatments to solve possible problems. Dr. Hartlieb often attended meetings and wrote out recipes.
After Albrecht's death, Anna continued to conduct magical sessions at Nannhofen Castle.
The "Voynich Manuscript" possibly shows either Nannhofen Castle or Blutenburg Castle. Nannhofen moated castle was built a little earlier (from 1423) than Blutenburg moated castle (from 1424), and Albrecht von Wittelsbach and Augsburg bather's daughter Agnes Bernauer sometimes met there secretly.
Externally both castles were very similar and had a similar history. Since Blutenburg Castle was built about five years earlier than originally assumed, some events (for example the birth of Agnes Bernauer (1405 instead of 1410) and her daughter Sibylla (1424 instead of 1430), the meeting of Agnes and Albrecht (1423 instead of 1428) could have occurred, and the construction of Blutenburg Castle ("Blytenburg", "Pluedenberg", from 1424 instead of from 1429)) also took place about five years earlier. (Jutta Czeguhn (2017))
The author of the "Voynich Manuscript", Doctor Hartlieb, often visited both castles. With the creation of the Voynich manuscript, Duchess Anna von Braunschweig-Grubenhagen developed a passion for fortune telling using astrological zodiac cards. She did this in both castles until her death in 1474. In the 16th century, Nannhofen Castle and its library came into the possession of the Court Chancellor of the House of Wittelsbach. Later, the Court Chancellor handed over the “Voynich Manuscript” to Emperor Rudolf II.
Source: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: Provenance and history of the Voynich Manuscript (hypothesis) - Scarecrow - 09-03-2024
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: Provenance and history of the Voynich Manuscript (hypothesis) - amelkin - 09-03-2024
(09-03-2024, 07:32 PM)Scarecrow Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Wikipedia ( You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ): "Johannes Hartlieb was born around 1400... Hartlieb took part in two wars: in the Hussite Wars (1419–1436) and in the Bavarian War (1420–1422)..."
If Dr. Hartlieb had been born in 1410, he could not have fought in these wars.
Thank you, Scarecrow.
RE: Provenance and history of the Voynich Manuscript (hypothesis) - Koen G - 09-03-2024
The English wiki still says 1410 as the year of birth, I don't know which one contains errors.
Based on iconographic analysis and carbon dating of the vellum, it is very unlikely that the VM was produced that close to 1450.
An argument can certainly be made for some connection to Hartlieb. As an author though, his active years are simply too late. Can you give some examples of what Hartlieb was producing in the 1420's?
RE: Provenance and history of the Voynich Manuscript (hypothesis) - amelkin - 09-03-2024
(09-03-2024, 10:52 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The English wiki still says 1410 as the year of birth, I don't know which one contains errors.
Based on iconographic analysis and carbon dating of the vellum, it is very unlikely that the VM was produced that close to 1450.
An argument can certainly be made for some connection to Hartlieb. As an author though, his active years are simply too late. Can you give some examples of what Hartlieb was producing in the 1420's?
Thank you, Koen.
At the moment I know the Hartlieb's work "Kunst der Gedächtnüß" from 1430. But I'll look for his earlier works.
RE: Provenance and history of the Voynich Manuscript (hypothesis) - R. Sale - 10-03-2024
Are there any examples of cosmic diagrams, zodiac medallions, mermaid illustrations, wolkenbands, or representations of the Agnus Dei? Was he influenced by Mariology?
RE: Provenance and history of the Voynich Manuscript (hypothesis) - amelkin - 10-03-2024
(10-03-2024, 01:30 AM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Are there any examples of cosmic diagrams, zodiac medallions, mermaid illustrations, wolkenbands, or representations of the Agnus Dei? Was he influenced by Mariology?
Johannes Hartlieb "Medizinischastrologischer Kalender"
RE: Provenance and history of the Voynich Manuscript (hypothesis) - amelkin - 10-03-2024
The font of Hartlieb's manuscript "Medizinischastrologischer Kalender" is somewhat reminiscent of Michitonese.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: Provenance and history of the Voynich Manuscript (hypothesis) - R. Sale - 10-03-2024
Granted that this seems to be the primary sort of chronology for the life of the VMs author(s). Someone who lived their twenties during the 1420s and then may have lived into their 60s or 70s. This could have, in exceptional circumstances, pushed VMs creation and/or completion to a date that is later than some prefer.
However, that's hardly enough to establish any sort of artistic similarity.
Take the VMs mermaid or the cosmic diagram as examples. What interpretations do you have for these?
"Ainß und Ainß" - what's that about?
RE: Provenance and history of the Voynich Manuscript (hypothesis) - amelkin - 10-03-2024
(10-03-2024, 08:43 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Granted that this seems to be the primary sort of chronology for the life of the VMs author(s)...
I agree with you. I have no evidence.