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+--- Thread: The containers in the Pharma section (/thread-406.html)
RE: The containers in the Pharma section - -JKP- - 18-05-2020
It's several months since this thread has had any posts, so I thought I would add one...
Arbarellos have the same basic shape as some of the VMS containers, but they are much larger. The VMS containers (the tube-like ones) appear to be smaller if the embellishments give any sense of scale, so here are some containers with a tube-like shape that are smaller, on a physician's tray. I don't think they have feet, that appears to be an illusion from the pigment chipping away:
BAV Urb.Lat.241
They're the same shape as some of the ones Koen posted in Post #94 but these ones give a sense of scale (maybe... you can't always trust scale in medieval drawings since size also denotes importance rather than actual size).
RE: The containers in the Pharma section - Antonio García Jiménez - 18-05-2020
JKP has put a good image as an example of the tube-like containers of the quire 15.
The containers of the quire 19 are different. I think they are censers. I will put some images that fit with them
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Aromatic herbs were burned in the censers. It is the fragrance that distills what matters and this immaterial fragrance is something that comes from de upper world in all cultures. In this section of the VM it is easier to see it. It is more difficult to see it in the Rosettes folio. In my thread 'No text but a visual code', I have put images of censers that match the ones drawn in the central circle.
Throughout the VM we see herbs and stars and it must be understood that they are closely related.
RE: The containers in the Pharma section - -JKP- - 18-05-2020
Censers have holes for the air to get in so the contents can burn, and are usually all metal so the container doesn't burn.
RE: The containers in the Pharma section - Antonio García Jiménez - 18-05-2020
JKP, I don't understand your commentary.
All the incense burners that I have put have holes and are made of metal
RE: The containers in the Pharma section - -JKP- - 18-05-2020
The containers in the VMS small-plants section look like they might be constructed from a variety of materials, possibly even leather for some of the tube-like ones, and glass for a couple of the fancy ones.
None of them look like they have holes. They have tines, which sit on top of the underlying medium and hold the parts together, but not holes. The only one that might be interpreted as having "holes" (dots") is the one that looks like it is made of glass, which would not be used for censers in the Middle Ages.
In other words, I am saying that the drawings in the VMS are not constructed like censors. They don't have holes for the air to get in, and not very many of them look like they might be made entirely of metal. I have posted quite a few images of censers (possibly in other threads) because there are some similar shapes, but in terms of construction, it seems less likely that they are censers. The VMS containers look more like storage and usage containers than like containers used for burning. A few look a bit like candelabras (although it's not really a close parallel), but that is different from a censer in that the flame is outside the container, not within it like a censer.
RE: The containers in the Pharma section - Antonio García Jiménez - 19-05-2020
It's difficult to know the material from which the drawn containers are made. Well, let's assume you are right and they are no censers. That's not important. What matters to understand the images is that these luxurious vessels contain perfumes. They are drawn to represent the fragrance of herbs.
And the best example of that is the correct interpretation we see in the Rosettes folio. And I put these two containers similar to the ones we see in the central circle of the cosmological diagram of the Rosettes.
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The aroma is distilled from the stars to the herbs on Earth. That's what it matters to understand
RE: The containers in the Pharma section - -JKP- - 19-05-2020
I don't think the containers are necessarily meant to be all the same.
There's quite a range in shapes and complexity. Each one is next to a row of plants and each one has a label.
Maybe they are meant to represent a particular group or kind of plant. Maybe the containers are imaginary.
I tend to think they might be real containers (most of them, I'm not so sure about the ones that MIGHT be made of glass), but even if they are mostly real their function might be mnemonic. These are ____ plants, these are _____ plants... and so on.
RE: The containers in the Pharma section - Aga Tentakulus - 19-05-2020
I surf in the direction of ceramics from time to time.
Above all I look for museums and look around.
With 3000 years of history of ceramics, a lot of shapes and colours come together.
Judging by the use in the book, it's probably earthenware.
After it even made a toilet into a museum, nothing surprises me anymore.
Everybody knows the colourful artistic old beer mugs with lids.
What are beer mugs if they do not have a handle?
Maybe you should just go to a museum again.
RE: The containers in the Pharma section - bi3mw - 19-05-2020
The apothecary's tin was a sign of the wound doctor. The two in the picture are not particularly decorated, but there were also some which were more elaborately designed.
In combination with the plants this interpretation of the containers seems to me quite possible.
![[Image: tins01.jpg]](https://wwwhomes.uni-bielefeld.de/mwille2/VMS/tins01.jpg)
Hausbuch der Nürnberger Zwölfbrüderstiftungen,Mendel I, ( Amb. 317.2, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ), 1436
Here's a tin of ointment.
![[Image: tin02.png]](https://wwwhomes.uni-bielefeld.de/mwille2/VMS/tin02.png)
Schachzabelbuch des Konrad von Ammenhausen ( WLB Cod.poet.et phil.fol.2, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ), 1467
RE: The containers in the Pharma section - DONJCH - 26-05-2020
I keep meaning to post this link
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Although focused 200 years after our time of interest, there is a nice 15thC alborello in there and loads of historical context regarding usage of different containers in ships' medicine through the ages.