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+--- Thread: The containers in the Pharma section (/thread-406.html)
RE: The containers in the Pharma section - -JKP- - 29-07-2019
The bottom row looks like a different set of containers, different styles.
The one bottom-left looks like it has a stopper or a finial. The bottom-middle one is rounded, but there's no way to know if it's round or oval (a flatted oval).
If it's the flattened shape, then it's very similar to the Chinese snuff-bottle shape. I suspect it's probably round rather than oval. The round shape was more common in the west.
The ones in the second row could also be similar to simple salt and pepper shakers.
Check out the shakers on the top row, near the right-hand side:
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RE: The containers in the Pharma section - -JKP- - 29-07-2019
I have to include this one just because it's so amazing for its time:
![[Image: 29_PanathenaicAmphora_det.jpg]](https://icom.museum/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/29_PanathenaicAmphora_det.jpg)
RE: The containers in the Pharma section - VViews - 29-07-2019
It includes an "egg"-style container in the lower row, although unfortunately the bottom part is very damaged.
The rest of the crypt paintings are also interesting: they feature scientific/cosmological drawings and diagrams for which parallels are found in manuscript rather than fresco art. Each of the four elements is associated with a number (referencing a passage in Plato's Timaeus). The zodiac sequence is unfortunately lost. But certainly these aspects are OT for this thread.
ETA: JKP our posts crossed. I don't see "finials" on any of the jars except the middle one in the bottom row. But then again due to the damage it is hard to really ascertain the details of the lower row.
ReneZ: haha I know what you meant with the microscopes!
RE: The containers in the Pharma section - Koen G - 29-07-2019
Oh I've recently gotten more than my share of context to understand any microscope references.
So the ones that look like shipping amphoras are phials? I think vessels of this shape might explain some of the more mnemonic looking VM leaf shapes as well.
RE: The containers in the Pharma section - MarcoP - 29-07-2019
Thank you very much, VViews! I was not aware of this fresco cycle. It looks totally amazing. The fact that these two physicians are portraited with such prominence inside a church is quite exceptional. The fresco makes part of cosmological illustrations that are clearly related to the Salerno school: the church itself was founded by bishop Pietro da Salerno.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. one can see the portraits with some visual context. The inscription surrounding them is also transcribed and translated.
Quote:ETAS VULTUS HOMOR MUTANTUR TEMPORE CUIUS / DE QUO PLUS ET INEST COMPLEXIO DICITUR HUIUS. ("People's age, face and disposition change with time, so that their constitution is increasingly said to be theirs.")
A scheme of the diagram on the left.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (Pressouyre. 1966) discusses the symbolic value of the four numbers assigned to the elements (8, 12, 18, 27).
The dome above the portraits:
Man is at the centre of the rota, surrounded by the inscription "homo microcosmus idest mundus minor" (man is a microcosm, i.e. a lesser world). The four radial segments correspond to the four temperaments and ages of man, personified by the four heads. The outer circles are harder to read, but they appear to add the elements and the seasons to the four-fold system.
PS: I found some more information You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
The naked man at the centre of the rota is surrounded by the letters H O M O (man), one for each quadrant. The inscription in the light green circle reads "MINOREM MUNDUM SIC EADEM FORMANT ELEMENTA" (the lesser world is thus formed by the elements). This is a double-entendre based on the fact that "elementa" denotes both the elements and letters. Innocent III connected the four letters of HOMO to the cardinal directions (hence to the whole four-fold system):
H (eta) is the seventh letter of the Greek alphabet; 7=septem Septemtrio (North);
O=oriens (East);
M=meridio (South);
O=occidens (West).
RE: The containers in the Pharma section - -JKP- - 29-07-2019
(29-07-2019, 10:13 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Oh I've recently gotten more than my share of context to understand any microscope references.
So the ones that look like shipping amphoras are phials? I think vessels of this shape might explain some of the more mnemonic looking VM leaf shapes as well.
It depends on scale.
If they are small, the pointy ones are probably glass phials. If they are larger, they are more likely ceramic amphorae. Both had the same basic shape.
The small spice shakers and the more plain apothecary jars also had essentially the same shape, the main difference was size.
It can be very difficult to judge scale in medieval drawings because they used scale to denote importance.
RE: The containers in the Pharma section - -JKP- - 29-07-2019
(29-07-2019, 10:01 AM)VViews Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
ETA: JKP our posts crossed. I don't see "finials" on any of the jars except the middle one in the bottom row. But then again due to the damage it is hard to really ascertain the details of the lower row.
..
Both of the containers on the bottom-left look to me like they have stoppers or necks (or maybe a plain finial on the leftmost one).
RE: The containers in the Pharma section - MarcoP - 01-09-2019
The Crater constellation from Liber Floridus You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., 1250-75, Northern France. The mansuscript was mentioned by VViews You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
RE: The containers in the Pharma section - -JKP- - 01-09-2019
Liber Floridus is one of my favorite manuscripts. I think I've used examples from it in five different blogs. I keep coming back to it.
In the Gallia version there is a long-necked Taurus with very long horns (reminiscent of the long neck on the VMS bull):
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I also mentioned it in the Mappa mundae blog when discussing the mountainy structures on the VMS map due to the interesting textures, and the blog about numerals.
I think maybe the reason it comes up so often (it's available in a few different versions) is because it is a book of knowledge, and my feeling has been for a very long time that the VMS may have been intended as a book of knowledge.
RE: The containers in the Pharma section - davidjackson - 09-09-2019
Quote:Innocent III connected the four letters of HOMO to the cardinal directions (hence to the whole four-fold system):
H (eta) is the seventh letter of the Greek alphabet; 7=septem Septemtrio (North);
O=oriens (East);
M=meridio (South);
O=occidens (West).
I wonder if that has any connection with f57v?