The Voynich Ninja
"minims" and "word endings" - Printable Version

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"minims" and "word endings" - Ranceps - 10-01-2022

For my own research, I have decided to make my own transcription (also rewriting the whole MS, including drawings, by using my own Voynich font). After a few pages, I have noticed that some minims are kinda weird...

For me it looks like the following:

EVA- n ( n), might just be an EVA-i with a ligature- therefore making a word daiin not daiin, but transcribed to daw/v/... instead regarding the count of i's.

EVA- s ( s), might as well be just an EVA-e with a ligature or a way to write c'h without the h.
EVA- r ( r) , when following the stroke also looks to me like EVA-i with an apostrophe = I'


and,
EVA- c'h ( c'h ) is in almost every case I found written from right to left.
[Image: Sn-mek-obrazovky-2022-01-10-v-15-52-29.png]

What are you thoughts on this? Wouldn't using a wrong transcription harm the results of for example frequency analysis making it unreliable? How do you cope with these "symptoms"?

RE: "minims" and "word endings" - Koen G - 10-01-2022

(10-01-2022, 04:39 PM)Ranceps Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.How do you cope with these "symptoms"?

Very poorly  Wink

I am still surprised by the amount of people who think that Eva equals Voynichese, without much critical thought. The problem is that all alternatives are equally uncertain, and nobody has made a convincing argument in favor of any particular solution.

RE: "minims" and "word endings" - Ranceps - 10-01-2022

(10-01-2022, 04:50 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I am still surprised by the amount of people who think that Eva equals Voynichese, without much critical thought.


No I think you misunderstood my thread or I wrote it poorly, I am not saying that transcription means translation. I am just saying that there is a lot of uncertainties in almost every word in the VM, the transcribers worked with that "noise" trying to make it work.
If the transcription itself is not accurate, the upcoming research based on this transcription might yield wrong results.

I know we know little to nothing about the language it was written in, but if I want my transcription to be as precise as possible, how would you transcribe these observations?

RE: "minims" and "word endings" - Koen G - 10-01-2022

No I mean that EVA "iin" does not necessarily represent a sequence of two identical glyphs and a third, different one. These are choices made at some point, but many researchers don't understand that none of this is set in stone. So I basically agree with you that other options must be studied. 

However, I don't know yet how we can decide which reading is the best one, so I cannot answer your question.

RE: "minims" and "word endings" - pfeaster - 10-01-2022

(10-01-2022, 04:39 PM)Ranceps Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.EVA- c'h ( c'h ) is in almost every case I found written from right to left.

Are you picturing something like this?

   

Would this work too?

   

EVA could be a lot worse, and I'm grateful for the thought that went into designing it.  Some of the points you raise can be addressed by pre-processing, e.g., just replace all [aiin] with [aw/v/].  But there will always be distinctions it doesn't make, and that someone hypothesizes might be important.  (For example: in [aiin], does the flourish on the [n] point towards the first or second [i]?)

Has anyone had a chance yet to evaluate the pros and cons of François Parmentier's "Bax" font and associated transcription scheme?  His accompanying You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. was discussed here very briefly, but I don't recall seeing anyone weigh in on his practical suggestions for identifying graphemes and whether they do or don't improve on EVA when it comes to the sort of issue Ranceps is asking about.

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RE: "minims" and "word endings" - Ranceps - 10-01-2022

Thanks, I will take my time reading that.

To your question: Every VM glyph is written with one stroke and the latter glyph - h - in my opinion was written with more pressure put onto the quill.

RE: "minims" and "word endings" - cvetkakocj@rogers.com - 11-01-2022

(10-01-2022, 06:18 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.No I mean that EVA "iin" does not necessarily represent a sequence of two identical glyphs and a third, different one. These are choices made at some point, but many researchers don't understand that none of this is set in stone. So I basically agree with you that other options must be studied. 

However, I don't know yet how we can decide which reading is the best one, so I cannot answer your question.

I would like to share the information I had found regarding the reading of minims in the manuscript Tractatum de Husite in which the Stična Codex was found. Since Stična codes is properly transcribed, I know the reading is correct. I colour-coded different letters. It is believed that the same author also wrote the Latin text, where the flourishes over last minim are turned upwards.

RE: "minims" and "word endings" - Ranceps - 12-01-2022

What was in your opinion written first, the gallow character or the bench?

We often type the character first and after that add diacritics.

Can we consider the benches/gallows being something like diacritics or abbreviation? You can also find benched gallows without the "h" ending or the bench enlargened to fit another "c" glyph.



[Image: Sn-mek-obrazovky-2022-01-12-v-18-55-14.png]

RE: "minims" and "word endings" - Aga Tentakulus - 12-01-2022

   
I would say the gallows was written first.

It looks like it pulled the still wet ink from the cross draw along.

RE: "minims" and "word endings" - Ranceps - 17-01-2022

For reference only I am going to post one of the older articles written by our landlord @davidjackson You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..

Have you made any new observations about anything you’ve written there?
Thanks in advance.