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+--- Thread: Siderial connections: masculine (/thread-3704.html)
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RE: Siderial connections: masculine - Linda - 21-12-2021
I agree with the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. example, i think there are 2 other male figures in quire 13, correct me if i am wrong.
This man (i think) is in Pisces. Seems to be several others, different beards, male nipples...There are some others (top) that have nipples drawn like men's but maybe they are just supposed to be young or less endowed, hard to say.
RE: Siderial connections: masculine - R. Sale - 22-12-2021
From the top of VMs Pisces. Two fairly obvious females to the right and two less than obvious males to the left.
These characters also are part of the profusion of pairings that occur in the first part of the VMs Zodiac sequence. Not only a pair of females and a pair of males, pairings based on similarity, but also based on the tub patterns, a female and a male pairing in the central tubs with striped patterns and a male and female pairing, based on complementary opposites, found to either side in tubs with a dotted pattern.
Of course, there are other things going on to either side.
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RE: Siderial connections: masculine - Linda - 23-12-2021
Actually as i look at Pisces and indeed others, i wonder if breasts were added to fat male figures, you can see a lot of doubled drawing going on to make more shapely figures out of more rotund shapes.
RE: Siderial connections: masculine - R. Sale - 23-12-2021
What can be seen in certain places is a much darker variety of ink being applied in various instances and 'breast' related examples certainly appear as a primary category. Whether it is augmentation, refreshment of a pale, prior line, or a new creation is often difficult to determine.
Dark ink has been used to reinforce lines in various other aspects of the VMs Zodiac nymph drawings.
On the other hand, the black crown appears to be a complete addition, and there are words in dark ink in the latter part of the Zodiac sequence that appear as original writing. Something for everyone.
So, is it a different artist or just a different bottle of ink?
An interesting character is found in the outer ring of Sagittarius near one o'clock. The primary image is done in light ink, and the secondary, darker ink has been used to emphasize the breasts on all these nymphs, save three. This outer ring nymph did not have breasts originally and did not have breasts added subsequently. Is this character a male?
Ambiguity can leave things to the reader's discretion, which, with a little prodding and distraction, can be easily led astray. It seems obvious that the secondary emphasis was intended to draw attention.
RE: Siderial connections: masculine - RobGea - 22-04-2022
(20-12-2021, 08:20 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This is a search request specifically for stars that can be shown to be masculine. Preferably in a medieval European, historical and traditional context.
Nice , i wanted to know this but discovered that basically you have to speak arabic to do this.
Ptomely's Almagest was the goto list.
Book of Fixed Stars written by Abd al-Rahman al-Sufi (known as Azophi in the West)
This nice list of Arabic star names, their meaning and the actual Arabic:
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the International Astronomical Union (IAU) formed a Working Group on Star Names (WGSN)
to compile and catalogue the star names that have been commonly used throughout history
and to approve unique names with standardised spellings.
star-facts / star names gives the full 448 stars and their details.
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wikipedia list : "List of proper names of stars" , more or less same as above.
To quote from here:You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
<< All Arabic nouns carry grammatical gender whether they refer to animate or inanimate objects.
For inanimate objects, the relationship between grammatical gender and objects is arbitrary >>
In summary most star names are Arabic, some are greek, some just corrupted words and then the rest.
RE: Siderial connections: masculine - R. Sale - 24-04-2022
The use of grammatical gender is the standard in many languages. English has lost a lot of that.
So, if a star is named with the Arabic word for 'tent', then the culturally assigned gender for that noun would affect the proposed 'gender' of the set of sidereal connections. Just like 'stella' is feminine, but 'der Stern' is masculine. Castor and Pollux and the few others are references to characters who are male - not to tents that might be grammatically masculine. On the other hand, there is no comparable list of stars named for female characters either.
It's another aspect of the question as to whether the VMs zodiac nymphs are just generic personifications of stars - or whether any of them have individual identities. Each one has a label, but is it a name with any meaning? And, for that matter, how is meaning to be transmitted in an illustration? Heraldry is a means of visual identification. And also consider how meaningful information might be distributed in the VMs pages. Is it equal in all locations? Or is it concentrated in certain places? Which places? And is meaning displayed plainly, so one simply falls over it? Or is something more required for a valid interpretation?
Now consider that a number of the *best* pages from the original VMs have been removed - because no one cuts up a manuscript to take the most worthless pages. And we examine what is left. Is it enough to find meaning? There seems to be meaning in some of the illustrations, at least.