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+--- Thread: Is the VMS homogeneous or a composite work? (/thread-3601.html)
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RE: Is the VMS homogeneous or a composite work? - bi3mw - 22-07-2021
(22-07-2021, 12:51 PM)RenegadeHealer Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Our modern distinction between a monolithic work and a compilation is anachronistic and unhelpful, when applied to premodern long-form works of literature.I do not consider the distinction of text genres in the literature of the Middle Ages to be anachronistic at all. It is, so to speak, the "daily bread" of the medievalist. There are novels (Arthus novel or courtly novels), poetry and sung poetry, novellas (Decamerone), compendiums (Compendium medicinae) and much more. One can distinguish these works already individually in "monolithic" or "compilations". Their abridged, revised or rewritten versions can appear in compilations that deal with several independent themes. It is therefore legitimate to ask oneself which genre of text and in which form one is dealing with.
RE: Is the VMS homogeneous or a composite work? - MarcoP - 22-07-2021
Touwaide compared the Voynich manuscript with an "iatrosophion". You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. elaborates on the meaning of the word:
Quote:An iatrosophion, widely used in Byzantine and Ottoman Greece, was a physician's notebook of recipes and treatments or was the collective compendium of classical and Byzantine medical and pharmacological texts consulted in hospital settings. Some iatrosophia included medical cures and drugs, but also spells, exorcisms, magic, astrology, and practical advice.
From the description of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.:
Quote:Iatrosophion compiled and used by Greek healers and practitioners of folk medicine, perhaps including local clerics, from the 16th to 18th centuries, possibly in Crete. The volume is foliated in part, but largely paginated (pp. 1-815). There are many missing and unnumbered pages. Decorative head pieces in the earlier parts of the manuscript. The text is comprised of approximately 70 sections, written in at least five different hands. This volume contains extracts from Greek medical treatises and information on botanical remedies (with a few color illustrations of plants), pharmacology, popular cures, astrological medicine (with charts), lists of "good" and "bad" days for phlebotomy, magical script, Cabalistic symbols, Zodiacal signs, pseudo-Solomonic pentacles, invocations of angels and demons, amuletic texts, spells, and prognostications.
I think that also a housebook / hausbuch could be a good parallel. For instance, see the table of contents of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
1. A iatromathematical calendar book, including a perpetual calendar, times for bloodletting, a diagram of the twelve winds, influence of the stars on humans. 2. Discussion of the individual signs of the zodiac. 3. The four complexions. 4. A long section about geomancy. 5. The planets and their children. 6. Another astronomical section discussing the constellations and including cosmological diagrams.
Or the contents of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
Art of Memory (in Latin). The planets and their children. Noble life (images only). Recipes (not only medical). Mining and metallurgy. War technology.
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From the e-codices description:
Quote:This manuscript, illustrated with numerous colored pen drawings, originated in a secular environment in Southern Germany or in Switzerland around the middle of the 15th century. It describes the signs of the zodiac, the planets, the four temperaments, and the four seasons regarding their influence on human health. This is followed by dietary guidelines primarily regarding bloodletting, but also regarding eating, drinking, sleeping, waking, resting and moving, as well as, in concrete terms, regarding bathing (illustration p. 101) or defecating (illustration p. 120). Most likely an amateur doctor with an interest in astronomy, from the Southern region of Germany, wrote the original text around 1400 and assembled it into a compendium.
It is not entirely clear how much these works conform to some kind of planned design. They typically are not homogeneous (different subjects, different authors, sometimes different languages and different hands) but they are not random either.
RE: Is the VMS homogeneous or a composite work? - bi3mw - 22-07-2021
(22-07-2021, 04:03 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I think that also a housebook / hausbuch could be a good parallel. For instance, see the table of contents of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Yes, iatromathematical house books are a good comparison. Even if they were created later in the 15th century, there were probably already precursors of them.
Quote:About the term "house book":
House books are manuscripts of scholars and known since the end of the 15th century. They are collective manuscripts with professional or specialized content.
More Iatromathematical House Books:
BSB Cgm 28,Iatromathematisches Hausbuch, 15th century
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Universitätsbibliothek Heidelberg, Cod. Pal. germ. 557, 'Iatromathematisches Hausbuch', 1468
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Zürich, Zentralbibliothek, (Schürstab Codex) , Ms. C 54, Nuremberg, around 1472
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Other manuscripts are listed in the "Handschriftencensus":
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edit: Furthermore, I would also consider "Cod. M II 180 " as a well comparable collective manuscript.
There is also a (not illustrated) "plant section" from folio 50r to 68r.
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RE: Is the VMS homogeneous or a composite work? - Anton - 22-07-2021
I think the MS is "homogenous", or, better say, "consistent", in the sense that different sections are supporting each other. One indication is reusage of leaves and roots from the Herbal section in the Pharma section. Another one is the consistent "nymph" motif spanning even over the last folio. There are more.
RE: Is the VMS homogeneous or a composite work? - R. Sale - 22-07-2021
In the first text, [Post #13: BSB Cgm 28,Iatromathematisches Hausbuch, 15th century], the initial illustrations go through the sequence of zodiac medallions three times.
And then there's this! The Zodiac Man.
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Anyone seen Sagittarius? Capricorn is an ibex. And Scorpio!? There are no 'botanical' illustrations of plants, no cosmos, no portraits of the Planetes; there are no celestial or bathing nymphs, no rosettes, and no pictorial pharmacopoeia. The VMs is clearly far more diverse in its illustrated topics. Or does that make it 'all inclusive'?
Is that really the purpose of the VMs? Why then the dualistic interpretations of VMs White Aries, the hidden, historical pathway referenced by the nymph with the red hat and the blue stripes plus the required pattern pairing. [All historically validated and everything.] If all we have to follow in the VMs is seen through the illustrations, then reading the illustrations may promote a pathway to reading the language.
RE: Is the VMS homogeneous or a composite work? - Aga Tentakulus - 23-07-2021
I know that exists. But unfortunately I don't write it down.
This is precisely where JKP would be in demand. He writes it down and has something like a library for it.
By the way, I haven't read anything from JKP for a while now. But I hope that nothing has happened to him and that he is doing well.
RE: Is the VMS homogeneous or a composite work? - bi3mw - 23-07-2021
(22-07-2021, 11:20 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There are no 'botanical' illustrations of plants, no cosmos, no portraits of the Planetes; there are no celestial or bathing nymphsAt least the seven planets according to Ptolemy are presented ("Von den 7 Planeten nach Ptolemäus"). About bathing there is also a chapter ("Vom Baden") if one really sees the nymphs as bathers.
The absence of the plant section is indeed a shortcoming that all Iatromathematical housebooks have in common. On this point, the comparison with the VMS does not fit. Here, "Cod. M II 180 " is the better comparison (see above).
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RE: Is the VMS homogeneous or a composite work? - R. Sale - 23-07-2021
@bi3mw Thanks for the sources.
Here's the quandary. The Vms is hypothetical, visually, and indecipherable, literally. A comparative text can be read but lacks illustrations <in a part>. How are these texts to be compared for topical homogeneity? If both texts were considered to be unreadable, what happens to the comparison then?
How many topics are too many? It depends. How many sources?
There are a variety of descriptions for nymphs. Only some of them are bathers. Mainly in all the ones in the greenish illustrations of Quire 13. They remind me of Christine de Pizan's illustration of the Muses. VMs has one depiction with nine bathers, and a second, more subtle version with nine to the left - out if 16. Just a curiosity.
The thing I found interesting in the latest source was the date and place: Elsaß, 1438/40.
What was the situation regarding Elsaß and the State of Burgundy coming up to that time? Would the events of Burgundy be known there as well?
RE: Is the VMS homogeneous or a composite work? - Aga Tentakulus - 24-07-2021
Maybe you should have a look at the German page on Wiki.
It is much more detailed.
Something made me wonder.
King Rudolf I's grandmother was Countess of Savoy (Duchy of Burgundy). But Savoy is on Lake Geneva.
Now I have looked at the historical sequence of Burgundy. You can imagine that I now have some questions.
The history is simply important, no one will get past it.
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RE: Is the VMS homogeneous or a composite work? - bi3mw - 01-05-2023
Here is an interesting compilation of various topics within a manuscript. Unfortunately, this work is not completely digitized.
Sloane 3171, 15th century
Title: Miscellany, including the Regimen sanitatis and alchemical texts
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