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Are Eastern and/or Central Europe a relatively blind spot? - Koen G - 22-04-2021
In my experience, there is a difference in availability when it comes to digitized manuscripts, and indeed online resources in general. There are too many German, English, French and Italian manuscripts to view in a lifetime. But outside of the central/western European region, things get a bit more hazy. I could easily name a dozen Italian or French manuscript traditions, among which those that appear the most relevant for the VM. Off the top of my head, I can recall some Czech manuscripts I've seen, and even mailed some Czech libraries to request images, but that's about it.
Now on the other hand, the VM first shows up on history's radar in Prague. So I wonder..
Did I simply not study Eastern and/or Central European regions enough?
Are the most "comparable" manuscripts, like herbals, simply mostly from countries like Italy?
Are there simply fewer manuscripts that were produced east of Germany?
Is it a matter of accessibility? (digitization, literature not in English...)
Do we need to look more towards Eastern and/or Central Europe as a possible context of creation for the VM, or are we best off with the current focus?
RE: Is eastern Europe a relatively blind spot? - Mark Knowles - 22-04-2021
(22-04-2021, 07:55 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Do we need to look more towards Eastern Europe as a possible context of creation for the VM, or are we best off with the current focus?I think it is important to be open to alternative scenarios. Personally, given my thinking England, Scotland, Ireland, Eastern Europe, Scandinavia are pretty unlikely. And Africa, Central & East Asia, the Americas, Australasia to name some areas which I really think have to be excluded until some piece of evidence pops up to include them.
I think it is worth noting that there may be documents in East European archives that are Western European in origin.
Having come across a paper about a Francesco Sforza cipher in a Moscow archives I know that documents can find their way to seemingly unlikely places.
I have found it difficult to know where to best look for Italian documents outside of Italy given the numerous European (and American) archives.
RE: Is eastern Europe a relatively blind spot? - -JKP- - 22-04-2021
(22-04-2021, 07:55 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In my experience, there is a difference in availability when it comes to digitized manuscripts, and indeed online resources in general. There are too many German, English, French and Italian manuscripts to view in a lifetime. But outside of the central/western European region, things get a bit more hazy. I could easily name a dozen Italian or French manuscript traditions, among which those that appear the most relevant for the VM. Off the top of my head, I can recall some Czech manuscripts I've seen, and even mailed some Czech libraries to request images, but that's about it.
Now on the other hand, the first shows up on history's radar in Prague. So I wonder..
Did I simply not study eastern European regions enough?
Are the most "comparable" manuscripts, like herbals, simply mostly from countries like Italy?
Are there simply fewer manuscripts that were produced east of Germany?
Is it a matter of accessibility? (digitization, literature not in English...)
Do we need to look more towards Eastern Europe as a possible context of creation for the VM, or are we best off with the current focus?
There are some in the vernacular, but most of the eastern European manuscripts I've seen are in Latin. As for there being fewer of them available, it's probably related to resources (both in the Middle Ages and now) and also the fact that rural areas (as you move farther east) would have fewer literate people in those days (they gravitated to universities in the west).
There are wonderful libraries in the Prague area, with tens of thousands of manuscripts. I wish I could go there. I traveled through Hungary (mostly looking at Bohemian glass) but, as much as I wanted to, I couldn't make it to Prague. I don't know how well their digitization efforts are being funded. Maybe the Polonski Foundation could help there.
RE: Is eastern Europe a relatively blind spot? - RobGea - 22-04-2021
(22-04-2021, 07:55 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Do we need to look more towards Eastern Europe as a possible context of creation for the VM
Yes.
One would imagine it's lack of resources that relates to less digitization of East european data.
Bohemia was an intellectual powerhouse in the middle ages.
The Rohonc codex was discovered in Hungary.
Even if the VM was not created in East Europe(EE) then at least an uncovering of MSS tradition in EE would provide a good contrast to the West European.
RE: Is eastern Europe a relatively blind spot? - bi3mw - 23-04-2021
I would also not disregard the Caucasus region. This is not Europe, but definitely worth a look with regard to the possible eastern provenance of the VMS. I have often found references to this region in my research. Examples:
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see page 8/9, Conclusion
Stephen Bax, A proposed partial decoding of the Voynich script, page 52, j
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RE: Is eastern Europe a relatively blind spot? - Anton - 23-04-2021
Russia (means Moscovia for the time) - definitely no, North Caucasus also quite out of scope. The Grand Duchy of Lithuania - maybe.
When one speaks of Eastern Europe, usually that means modern Russia (European part), Baltic states, Ukraine, Belarus and Moldavia - in other words, the ex-USSR territories of Europe. Bohemia, Moravia, Silesia etc - those would be "Central Europe" instead.
RE: Is eastern Europe a relatively blind spot? - RobGea - 23-04-2021
By Eastern Europe i meant anything East of germany and West of the Black sea.
but yeah,my bad, Central and bit of Eastern Europe are the proper designations.
RE: Is eastern Europe a relatively blind spot? - Koen G - 23-04-2021
Please let us not get sidetracked by the definition of Eastern Europe, which is not set in stone. From the Wiki: Eastern Europe is the region of the European continent between Western Europe and Asia. There is no consistent definition of the precise area it covers, partly because the term has a wide range of geopolitical, geographical, ethnic, cultural, and socioeconomic connotations."
To be precise, I meant Czech Republic, Hungary etc.
RE: Is eastern Europe a relatively blind spot? - ReneZ - 23-04-2021
Prague is considerably to the West of Vienna.
RE: Are Eastern and/or Central Europe a relatively blind spot? - Koen G - 23-04-2021
Edited opening post to include Central Europe. I especially wonder about your opinion on this matter too, Rene.