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+--- Thread: €400 Reward (/thread-3533.html)
RE: €400 Reward - Mark Knowles - 01-01-2022
(01-01-2022, 06:21 PM)Ranceps Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Don't know if it helps, but I found a website containing a lot of cyphers. Might not be exactly what you are looking for, but still can provide some goodies
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Oh, yes. I know that website very well. It is a good site.
Thanks for recommendation anyway as there is always a chance that something might have slipped through my net.
RE: €400 Reward - Mark Knowles - 01-01-2022
All suggestions are welcome even if they seem obvious. If I know the sources that you refer to I can simply tell you and this information might be useful to someone else reading this thread.
I have spent a considerable amount of time collecting ciphers from this period, but there could certainly be something that I have missed that others have found without difficulty.
RE: €400 Reward - Mark Knowles - 02-01-2022
I think/hope that I have all the relevant material from the following Italian State Archives: Venice, Mantua, Florence, Modena, Lucca, Milan, Bologna. For the State Archives of Siena and Pisa I hope I have everything, but I will probably need to double check. The State Archives of Turin, Genoa and Naples appear to have nothing from this period by their own account. I have obviously investigated many other State and non-State archives in Italy. There is however, again, always a chance that there is something I have missed.
RE: €400 Reward - R. Sale - 03-01-2022
In all of these various examples, what sorts of techniques were used? Are they mainly substitution ciphers that differ in the uniqueness and complexity of their keys? Or are there also other techniques like anagramming or steganography or something else?
RE: €400 Reward - Mark Knowles - 03-01-2022
(03-01-2022, 07:20 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In all of these various examples, what sorts of techniques were used? Are they mainly substitution ciphers that differ in the uniqueness and complexity of their keys? Or are there also other techniques like anagramming or steganography or something else?Essentially, yes are right when you said "they mainly substitution ciphers that differ in the uniqueness and complexity of their keys". And there can be a pretty big difference between their complexity and definitely some which have really unique features.
The main problem I have with sharing these is that most examples that I have were obtained as photoreproductions from archives and unfortunately archives are very restrictive in how or whether you can share them with other people. When I write a paper or two on the subject I will have to get permission from the archives to include the very small number of images that I choose to include.
RE: €400 Reward - R. Sale - 03-01-2022
So, if substitution is the primary technique in use, what other methods were being used? Are there examples of some other technique?
If substitution was the primary technique used relative to the C-14 dates, that might, at least hypothetically, be applied to the VMs. Where, of course, it has failed to work.
If, per chance, the various potential sightings of the Golden Fleece have any validity, then the start of VMs chronology may shift a bit to slightly more recent years versus the strict C-14 calculation.
RE: €400 Reward - Mark Knowles - 04-01-2022
(03-01-2022, 10:25 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.So, if substitution is the primary technique in use, what other methods were being used?If possible can you post your comments/questions about cryptography on another cryptography related thread as I want to reserve this thread on the off-chance that someone else will find a cipher that I don't know about.
RE: €400 Reward - Mark Knowles - 17-03-2022
I recently received the following message from the Milan State Archives:
“the document transcribed by Osio on pages 286-287 of volume II of the Diplomatic documents taken from the Milanese archives is not confirmed by our institute, as verified in folders 8 and 10 (which contain documents from the Visconti period) and 1591, 1597 and 1598 (which contain ciphers and cipher letters) from the Carteggio Visconteo Sforzesco collection. Osio does not mention the institute for the conservation of published documents, it is therefore likely that, having drawn from various archives, as per the title of the volume, the letter you reported is at some other Milanese institution. In this regard, it should be noted that material from the Sforza period is kept in the Historic Civic Archive of the municipality of Milan (Castello Sforzesco, Piazza Castello 20121, e-mail address You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.).
Much of the documentation of the 1591, 1597 and 1598 folders mentioned above is undated: it is therefore possible that among the numerous papers there is something from the first half of the fifteenth century. In this regard, it should be noted that in the 1591 folder an undated cipher was found (and probably in a later copy), whose shirt bears the date 21 August 1439 and the title ‘Visconti decrees’.”
Well I will certainly following up the possible “1439” cipher.
RE: €400 Reward - Mark Knowles - 17-03-2022
I should add that I am still interested in tips.
RE: €400 Reward - Mark Knowles - 18-03-2022
I should add that if I do find, for example a 1439 Milanese enciphered letter then my offer of £400 will apply to ciphers between 1425 and 1438. Though at my discretion in the 1439 to 1444 range I may still provide that sum money.
However I have not yet ascertained when the cipher in the "visconti decrees" folder dates from, so I would say the original 1425-1444 offer still stands as before until further notice.