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Is the VM written in Landa Khojki script? - Printable Version

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RE: Is the VM written in Landa Khojki script? - De1m0s - 19-04-2021

(18-04-2021, 06:04 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Realistically, as JKP will demonstrate, there is no glyph in the VM that can't be derived from medieval European script. There's nothing odd about the script, just the way it is put together.


Really?
If i look at the "voynich alphabet" here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Most of the comparisons are very far-fetched. I can´t agree to most of them. Only if they say "8 must be an s" can´t be the truth. And the  ^ should be an v?? That´s what you call logic?

The translations so far did not brought so much information. You can read the VM regarding the transcriptions, and say "ok, this means "otam otawa shon"" is cool, but totaly senseless so far.

So, saying the script is not Landa Khojki or similar, without checking if that could be the truth, is surely not the right way.

RE: Is the VM written in Landa Khojki script? - Koen G - 19-04-2021

The vast majority of Voynichese glyphs are found in Latin manuscripts. This does not hold true for any other script. Once you realise this, it's obvious that the script is based on Latin scribal conventions.

We had a huge thread about this. I would especially recommend checking Marco's post here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

One could still assume influence from other scripts, of course. But the base is Latin, and the evidence is there.

RE: Is the VM written in Landa Khojki script? - nablator - 19-04-2021

(19-04-2021, 07:42 AM)De1m0s Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If i look at the "voynich alphabet" here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Most of the comparisons are very far-fetched. I can´t agree to most of them.

Good. Because there is no comparison on this page.

RE: Is the VM written in Landa Khojki script? - davidjackson - 19-04-2021

(19-04-2021, 07:42 AM)De1m0s Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.So, saying the script is not Landa Khojki or similar, without checking if that could be the truth, is surely not the right way.
I did not say that. I said that almost all of the Voynich glyphs have been found in medieval European manuscripts. Koen kindly provided some links above.

The page you linked to> You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is not an attempt to translate Voynichese glyphs to Latin characters. It is a transcription page for computer manipulation of the corpus text, which shows how different transcription alphabets map glyphs to keyboard characters.

RE: Is the VM written in Landa Khojki script? - De1m0s - 20-04-2021

How long do people try to see the latin alphabet in the VM?
What was it exactly what you get, if you "translate" the script in latin letters??  How many phrases could be translated so far by this method?

No one here who´s familiar with Sinthi and it´s derivates?

RE: Is the VM written in Landa Khojki script? - ReneZ - 20-04-2021

The proposed solution from Sukhwant Singh has been around for many years. The video that was linked in the opening post is from 2015. The proposed solution itself could be older, but I don't remember for certain.

This solution has been publicised in several ways - by E-mails to individuals, by posts in some bulletin boards, and with several videos in youtube. It can also be found on academia.edu

The only conclusion I can draw for certain is, that it has not been able to convince people sufficiently, in order to be taken as the correct solution.

RE: Is the VM written in Landa Khojki script? - MarcoP - 20-04-2021

The scripts proposed by Sukhwant Singh appear not to represent (most) vowels: they are either abjads or abugidas (or something intermediate between the two). This is also how he reads the VMS: each symbol corresponds to a syllable (consonant+vowel).

   
Detail from 34:49

Unless I am misunderstanding something, this is a problem. Scripts of that kind result in increased character entropy, since entropy is lowered by the fact that consonants and vowels tend to alternate, while typically there are no phonetic constraints between consecutive syllables. As You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. discussing Latin abbreviations, the low entropy values for the VMS suggest that the script should be "compressed" to reproduce the phonetics of Indo-European languages: quite the opposite of what Sukhwant Singh does.

Rene Wrote:The main point is a general statistical one, from information theory. Compression of a string of characters means an increase in entropy, while the inverted process (de-compression of the compressed file) a decrease in entropy. Thus, a process converting a plain text with higher entropy to the Voynich MS text is equivalent with some kind of expansion. Now, replacing Voynich MS characters with further expansion will not increase the entropy, but rather reduce it. Because of what has just been described here, the Voynich MS text has occasionally been called (or compared with) a verbose cipher.

Latin and other European languages do not work because (among other reasons) their entropy is too high with respect to the VMS: assuming a script like Landa-Khojki makes things even worse.

EDIT: The observation that abjads have slightly higher character conditional entropy than alphabetic scripts is discussed in Lindemann and Bowern "Character Entropy in Modern and Historical Texts".

RE: Is the VM written in Landa Khojki script? - Anton - 20-04-2021

(20-04-2021, 05:30 AM)De1m0s Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.How long do people try to see the latin alphabet in the VM?

It's not latin alphabet, it's latin scribal conventions mostly, such as abbreviation symbols.

Quote:What was it exactly what you get, if you "translate" the script in latin letters??  How many phrases could be translated so far by this method?

Taking these symbols at face value yields nothing, of course.

RE: Is the VM written in Landa Khojki script? - De1m0s - 21-04-2021

In the video, it seems Sukhwant Singh can translate parts of the VM, without big problems. Ok, he took some syllables from Landa, others from Sinthi or Khojki, but no one knows which strange dialects were spoken and written in this part of the world 500 or more years ago.

His method seems to definitely work better than Chechire or Hannig, who had to heavily invent or keep off any characters or syllables, to "translate" one or two clauses of the VM, to get a text, that makes (more or less) sense. And no one of them could translate with their method complete sites of the VM.

The question is, if with Sukhwants method can be applied to the entire VM. But therefore, we´ll need a dictionary, where Landa/Sinthi/whatever words with their english/german translation are shown as syllables. I´m not so convinced there´s something like this.

RE: Is the VM written in Landa Khojki script? - Pardis Motiee - 10-05-2021

[Image: Khojki-Consonants.gif]

I can see ṭa, ṭha and va have some similarities, but what about others?