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+--- Thread: Do you see same patterns? (/thread-3529.html)
RE: Do you see same patterns? - Pardis Motiee - 18-04-2021
(18-04-2021, 04:58 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I guess this can be called an "algorithm" or "procedure". If you can demonstrate that there is a procedure in the VMS which converts input to output in a systematic fashion, that would be a huge leap forward indeed. Like, (for the sake of example):
"Assuming input "ABCD", exclude B, prepend E, append F, and write it all in the reverse order. Then ABCD becomes FDCAE. Repeat this for any third vord of any sixth paragraph".
What I can see in your newly attached plot, is that e.g. there are sequences of vords which end or begin in the same manner, or that there are vords which have repeatable glyphs within. What though? This happens. "Boogie bubble refrain, again".
Based on what I have asked, it is possible to give the algorithm and make it a program. like you would need to make it understand "if two words end is same, delete the ends". Again it start from first word, It can continue processing till there won't be any repeats left. I observed that, after omitting I have to change reading frame. This brings some words with repeats which I would be stuck, that "should I continue deleting?" In this matter I check meanings. "If it is deleted, will be the correct word here?" If the meanings are like <I go "TAB OAB" mountain.> I notice here it must be omissions to become <I go to mountain>. It is after changing reading frame.
RE: Do you see same patterns? - Anton - 18-04-2021
Sorry, I'm still unable to comprehend. Let me put this another way. What you propose would be applicable to any text in any language, just because any language can have e.g. "twin" occurrences in words. For example, English "apple" has the "twin" pp within. Based on what you propose, we would need to convert "apple" to "aple". But what for?
RE: Do you see same patterns? - Pardis Motiee - 18-04-2021
(18-04-2021, 05:59 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.OK, this is very interesting and a new way of looking at things.Are you saying to decode it?
Currently, however, I just don't know if this is a new angle, or just a reinterpretation of Stolfi's "crust-mantle-core" system, where he created a sort of grammar for Voynichese, and showed how positional aware each glyph is.
Let me select a paragraph at random (RZ modern transcription) with ambiguities removed:
...
[font=Arial]How would your system work? And what is its aim? (scratch that, not a fair question)[/font]
My system makes grammar after decoding, like some sentences. And I use it to find content of pages.
RE: Do you see same patterns? - davidjackson - 18-04-2021
(18-04-2021, 07:15 PM)Pardis Motiee Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.And I use it to find content of pages.OK. How? Because I don't understand.
RE: Do you see same patterns? - Pardis Motiee - 18-04-2021
(18-04-2021, 07:05 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Sorry, I'm still unable to comprehend. Let me put this another way. What you propose would be applicable to any text in any language, just because any language can have e.g. "twin" occurrences in words. For example, English "apple" has the "twin" pp within. Based on what you propose, we would need to convert "apple" to "aple". But what for?
I am using script based translation. One example I sometimes see is word sheddat, it means force in Farsi, when I don't write Finglish. It would be شدت. The d or د. is not two times written, in correct way of writing we use an indicator known as tashdid. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. Not writing it wouldn't make problem in understanding, but maybe I must look if some twins are actually emphasize.
RE: Do you see same patterns? - Pardis Motiee - 18-04-2021
(18-04-2021, 07:24 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(18-04-2021, 07:15 PM)Pardis Motiee Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.And I use it to find content of pages.OK. How? Because I don't understand.
It is easy. Omit. Transcript. Translate.
By a fast incomplete look, I think it has a part that meanings can be gah ar bod Sometimes if it be.
gah, گاه : sometimes, times, song
ar, ار: short form of agar اگر , if
bod, بد: baad باد, bovad بود, to be. 3sg . It can also be bad meaning same as bad, not good.
Depending on other parts, the words that were in different pages and overall content I will find it. The chosen writings of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. starts from half of the paragraph, the frame of reading may change if I don't see verbs there. unless starting from first line. It gets time, maybe a day or two.
RE: Do you see same patterns? - Anton - 18-04-2021
OK, now I understand. You mean that the author used a substitution cipher, and then introduced a set of transformations such as duplication to obfuscate the text, introducing more characters, making it sort of verbose cipher. By following these transformations in the reverse direction we may disclose the original substitution.
Conceptually that makes sense, although it's not clear what to do with labels (many of them may disappear from the text with this approach), also this will not explain some line- and paragraph-level phenomena, such as multipass or prevalence of gallows in paragraph-starting positions.
RE: Do you see same patterns? - Pardis Motiee - 19-04-2021
Could you explain the line and paragraph level phenomena? I am not familiar with multipass or prevalence of gallows in paragraph-starting positions.
RE: Do you see same patterns? - Anton - 20-04-2021
Some threads that deal with line- and paragraph levels (in no particular order):
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RE: Do you see same patterns? - nablator - 20-04-2021
p and f appear mostly on the first line of paragraphs :
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