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+--- Thread: Viola: Transcriptions (/thread-3494.html)
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Viola: Transcriptions - R. Sale - 24-02-2021
I would like to reference and collect medieval European, botanical, text passages about the plant called 'viola'. Text references, transcriptions and translations in the era 1400-1450 are the primary area of inquiry. When the visual identifications match, the relevant texts should be compared. First, there needs to be a database of transcriptions.
Similar threads for other identified plants may help in those areas.
RE: Viola: Transcriptions - -JKP- - 25-02-2021
They are in numerous different languages (but mostly Latin).
Sometimes there is nothing more than a label and sometimes the labels were added years later and are not always correct (they seem to be about 90% correct).
The descriptions fall into categories.
Some describe the major ID traits of the plant and are sometimes accompanied by how the plants are used. Some include medicinal recipes.
Some include the elemental traits of the plant (what grade of hot, cold, wet or dry).
Some of them use excerpts from Pliny's plant descriptions.
One that stands out as different is the plant descriptions of Hildegard. Her descriptions are a little more narrative than some.
Many of the plant books were created by professors and students of medicine, because plants were medicine in the Middle Ages.
None of them are technical compared to modern botany and medicine, they were pretty basic and straightforward.
You should look at some of the translations Marco has posted. They convey a good sense of the "magical thinking" that existed in the Middle Ages.
Also, if English is your primary language, check out the early medieval herbals in Old English. They are readable and they are some of the oldest ones in Europe. It's possible someone brought back a plant manuscript when they returned from the crusades and thus it was copied earlier in the northern countries than some of the Greco-Roman ones that reached the southern areas via Greece and Italy.
RE: Viola: Transcriptions - -JKP- - 25-02-2021
Just so you know, the species of Viola included in the VMS is not the one usually included in early plant books (Roman and medieval). It's quite well drawn. It captures the posture of the plant and the leaves quite well.
Most of the time, in Medieval plant books, they recommended Viola odorata (a lower-growing plant with rounder leaves) because it was considered the best for medicinal use.
Viola tricolor and its lookalikes (those with an upright growth habit and deeply serrated, palmate leaves) weren't commonly documented until the 17th and 18th centuries. There are only a few from the 16th century (e.g., Dodoens).
The Trinity herbal has one labeled Viola agrestis, but the drawing doesn't look like Viola tricolor. It might be Viola calcarata or one of the other varieties that grow lower to the ground and have more elliptical leaves.
So, you may have trouble finding text to match the VMS Viola, unless you want to use Dodoens from the 16th century.
RE: Viola: Transcriptions - R. Sale - 25-02-2021
Are there other potential, botanical candidates that have a good VMs plant ID, which also have good literary references? Which of these possibilities have the best literary references?
Nick Pelling had the 'block paradigm' suggestion, which would apply to highly structured text, such as poetry. However it lacked any particular topic or comparative examples.
Here, there is a specific topic, which imposes fairly strict limitations on the literary universe. Actually finding good literary examples may present some difficulties. And comparative text structure will be more problematic and not poetic. Thus the need to optimize the literary aspect as much as possible.
RE: Viola: Transcriptions - -JKP- - 25-02-2021
The only VMS plant that has any significant amount of agreement is Viola.
Next on the list is Cannabis, but not everyone agrees. Also, I think Ricinus is pretty clear (but not everyone agrees).
RE: Viola: Transcriptions - R. Sale - 26-02-2021
So then, would you say that the chances of matching a VMs plant identification with an historical illustration of the same plant, and then comparing the text from that historical source with the relevant text in the VMs and finding any correspondence are likely to be infinitesimal and none?
That was my original contention. Just wanting to know if that opinion is most likely still valid.
RE: Viola: Transcriptions - -JKP- - 26-02-2021
There are very few matches for the VMS Viola because they preferred Viola odorata for medicinal uses (it looks very different from Viola tricolor).
Sometimes the only text is a label.
For Cannabis, there are more examples, but it has many different names. Nevertheless, Cannabis will yield more medieval descriptions than Viola tricolor.
RE: Viola: Transcriptions - Pardis Motiee - 09-03-2021
These are from my first round translation of the page. See whether it matches with viola or not.
1. In constellation of ox
2. It reduces milk of animals
3. For cooking with meat
4. In vine and kind of kebab
5. As a kind of timber
6. A flower that produces seeds
RE: Viola: Transcriptions - Koen G - 09-03-2021
I don't think any of those particularly apply to viola.
RE: Viola: Transcriptions - -JKP- - 09-03-2021
(09-03-2021, 03:20 PM)Pardis Motiee Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.These are from my first round translation of the page. See whether it matches with viola or not.
1. In constellation of ox
2. It reduces milk of animals
3. For cooking with meat
4. In vine and kind of kebab
5. As a kind of timber
6. A flower that produces seeds
I can't remember which plant/constellation is associated with Viola, but Viola bicolor and V. tricolor were generally not included in medieval herbals (they preferred V. odorata), so I don't know if it's even recorded which constellation they preferred for V. tricolor.
I've never seen any of those characteristics mentioned in medieval herbals for Viola.
Viola is edible, but the parts are delicate, they are mostly used in salad. I doubt if they are milk reducers, partly because they don't grow well in trampled areas (where there are a lot of livestock). I would have to look it up to be sure, but I would be surprised if they are milk reducers based on their chemistry.
"As a kind of timber". This stretches credulity.
In general, flowers produce seeds. I can't imagine why anyone would write this.
Ferns (which produce spores) are not flowers by definition.
They believed some pretty goofy stuff in the Middle Ages, but this just doesn't "feel" like Viola in any way.