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Compound plants in the VMS ? - Printable Version

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RE: Compound plants in the VMS ? - R. Sale - 12-11-2021

I can not argue against the statement of people seeing patterns that are not intended to be there, especially in the VMs  illustrations. However, the contrasting situation would be the failure to see something that was intended to be included, but that discovery has been precluded because the chosen, historical details have no potential for recognition and the recovery of their traditional interpretation. 

There are two scale-like tub patterns - one on Pisces and one on Dark Aries. They had no name; they had no purpose; they had no identity. According to heraldic tradition this pattern is a traditional tincture. It is a fur called papelonny. Now the pattern has a name. A name that is 'recovered' from the traditional interpretation of armorial heraldry. Heraldry provides several other significant, historical details and interpretations - and those who don't know the specific heraldic details cannot find the traditional interpretation or the purpose of the papelonny patterns.

RE: Compound plants in the VMS ? - Aga Tentakulus - 13-11-2021

@Linda

Are you thinking along these lines?
Some plants are cut back to the rootstock in autumn, or simply die back above the rootstock.
In spring it then sprouts again from the rootstock. The root gets bigger and bigger and spreads under the soil, the plant that grows on top keeps its size but grows more.

Example with trees.
When a tree is pruned, shoots form around the old stump. These shoots each take over part of the old roots and continue to grow. Over time, the old rootstock rots and the shoots form a new tree on their own. They then stand beautifully in a circle.
In German, this is called a fairy ring  (Feenring).
In the past, such groups of trees had a magical aura. Sometimes they also have names, for example "the seven brothers".

RE: Compound plants in the VMS ? - Aga Tentakulus - 13-11-2021

   
A nice example is perhaps the willow.
It only looks like this because the basket weavers always steal the young branches from it.
Even though all the branches are taken away, it does not die and grows new ones.

RE: Compound plants in the VMS ? - Koen G - 13-11-2021

Ah, I also wrote about this: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

RE: Compound plants in the VMS ? - pedestrian - 13-11-2021

Thank you Koen, Marco, Linda, and Aga.

So, largely it was my failure to find the threads addressing the question of grafting, related blog posts and other thoughts people have had on the subject of coppicing, etc.

I can certainly see the arguments for VM plants showing the appearance of coppicing and for plants growing back from trimmed down stems/root and from bulbs, stems and roots where the plant has died down over winter.

I guess my original thought was under the heading of the thread, being compound plants, rather than plants which look like they've regrown from their own roots. You can create images of compound plants as fantasy drawings, through bad drawing, as a metaphorical, allusive, or cryptic image, or you can literally create a compound plant by grafting.

Naturally one shouldn't get too far into this kind of speculation without any kind of evidential base.

Some of the links you all kindly provided do go in that direction, although I'm not sure how useful to core questions about the VM this might be anyway, so possibly not worth spending much time on...

RE: Compound plants in the VMS ? - Aga Tentakulus - 13-11-2021

Thank you Koen
Didn't see and read that before.
I think it will be something like this. I don't think of VM roots directly as trees, more like shrubs or flowers.
When I think of herb gardens, grubs are also cut back to the cane. But also others.


   
Here is another picture of the "seven brothers" oak.

RE: Compound plants in the VMS ? - Aga Tentakulus - 13-11-2021

Another example of the roots is f93v.
I am pretty sure that this is the flat hawkweed.

   

It is almost 1 to 1 close to the VM drawing. (important medicinal plant) And what we see as roots, I think is this kind of offshoot.

   

Unfortunately I didn't include the offshoot on my summary.

   

RE: Compound plants in the VMS ? - Linda - 13-11-2021

(13-11-2021, 04:37 AM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.@Linda

Are you thinking along these lines?
Some plants are cut back to the rootstock in autumn, or simply die back above the rootstock.
In spring it then sprouts again from the rootstock. The root gets bigger and bigger and spreads under the soil, the plant that grows on top keeps its size but grows more.

Example with trees.
When a tree is pruned, shoots form around the old stump. These shoots each take over part of the old roots and continue to grow. Over time, the old rootstock rots and the shoots form a new tree on their own. They then stand beautifully in a circle.
In German, this is called a fairy ring  (Feenring).
In the past, such groups of trees had a magical aura. Sometimes they also have names, for example "the seven brothers".

Yes i wasn't thinking trees per se, more the things that die down to the root, or that if you cut it down would come back from that cut surface (a tree or bush would fit too though). Many plants are sold or traded today as bare root, i do not see why those interested in plants at the time would not trade bare root plants too, given they are dormant in that state and you don't have to tend to them, yet they will generally come back to life once you plant them again at the appropriate time.

Here are some Hostas and daylilies

[Image: bcd2a49304afe948_4666-w500-h281-b0-p0--.jpg][Image: 62454A_sas.jpg][Image: hemerocallis-joan-senior-bare-root.jpg]

So i thought maybe when they drew the root they drew it as they remembered planting it, since as it grew more sprouts would come from the same spot and it wouldnt look like that anymore