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Sphere of Life and Death Cipher? - Printable Version

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Sphere of Life and Death Cipher? - Barbrey - 03-08-2020

I have been looking at the Voynich for a month or so now and it has drawn me into reading about a lot of esoteric subjects.  I've become particularly swayed by the idea that it incorporates not just medieval astrological material but also medieval magical material in the form of magic circles and incantantations to accompany its medicines or cures.  Which was incredibly common so it's not new but was new to me.  For instance, 57v is very like magic spheres of the time, which drew on the powers ofholy and planetary names to summon spirits or demons.  Moreover the sign of the cross was often used to separate holy names, as we see on the last page. I have observed many other similarities but it poses background rather than the topic of this post.

In the course of the above reading, I came across a sort of magic eightball sphere called the sphere of life and death that physicians would use to divine through onomancy whether a patient would live or die.  The usual practice was to take numbers associated with the patient's name, the moon on which he or she got sick, and the weekday number on which he or she got sick.  Add up and divide by 30 and if thd remainder number fell below a centre line in the table given, the patient would die, if above, the patient would live.

This sphere was so ubiquitous in medical manuscripts of the time it left me wondering why the VMS, if it was a pharmaceutical/medical manual, which I believe it was, didn't have one.

So then I actually looked at the number and letter matches on the sphere for determining the number for a person's name. And the VM began to make a vague sort of sense if it were written in numerical cipher, often with two characters representing one number and translating back to one letter of the Latin alphabet.

There are problems with this method because the sphere numerical systems can differ slightly from one publisned sphere to another.  We also can't at this point be positive what VM character/s represent what number though working backward should work with time and patience.  And lastly, not all numbers are represented on the sphere, and moreover one number might stand for more than one letter.

But it was this last problem that got me somewhat excited because it helps make sense of some anomalies I noticed in the Voynich patterns.  For instance, the letter that looks like a was often folliwed by what JK calls minims.  They did not seem to work properly as numbers.  But in the sphere of life, where a is represented by iii or 3, the number 3 also represents 3 other letters  - most commonly b, f and z (or v\u).

So was the VM character a the number 3 and therefore also an a, and the minims were possibly subsets of 3 to indicate another variable of 3 - a was a, ai was b, aii was f and aiii was z?

There were two other groupings like this.  The number 15 stood for e, i, n and sometimes k.  And the number 6 stood for h, y and one or two more I can't remember - don't have it in front of me.

I had already been looking at the vM c groups as possibly numbers, particularly c as 2 or 5.  If 5, then the c-c with a colophon on top could be 15, representing e, a different colophon i and a different one n.  Something like that anyway!

As for the 6 group, I wondered if this was where the ligatured characters came in.

That's about as far as I've gotten!  But the sphere was a standard, often ubiquitous, feature in many of these manuscripts - it wouldn't be totally fanciful if it was being used as a cipher key with some adjustments. 

Before I go any further working on this, has anyone you guys know of already looked at this?  And do you think it a waste of time or impossible?  You can look up the sphere and info about it just by googling The Sphere of Life and Death.


RE: Sphere of Life and Death Cipher? - -JKP- - 03-08-2020

I have a number of life-death circles in my files but I don't know if I can grab them quickly. But here's one from Harley 3719 (an astronomical/medical text):

[Image: Sphere-of-Life-and-Death-Harley-3719-fol...ibrary.png]

For those who are not familiar with them, they were used for prognostication and had a traditional format within a circle, with letters and sometimes numbers in the outer rings and numbers within the central sections (in a number of different arrangements). Usually there is a horizontal line bisecting the middle. In the Harley example this line is embellished because it indicates a crucial dividing line.

If the calculations ended up in the upper portion, the patient would live. In the lower portion, the patient would die.

Wiley has an article on this subject:

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RE: Sphere of Life and Death Cipher? - Barbrey - 03-08-2020

Thanks for posting,JKP.  Much easier for readers to make sense of what I was saying with it in front of them.

Someone just asked me about what 8aiii (I think Eva calls this iii configuration an m?) might mean under this system. At this point until I know numbers better I'm just guessing.  But here's my best guess.

In my prior post I said that holy names were almost always used in magic incantations, prayers or circles as a way to draw power, even if conjuring a demon or doing things the church might consider heretical was the purpose.  And that includes medicinal charms and incantations.

The most common and considered strongest were alternate names for god (whose real name could not be mentioned).  Common names for God were inscripted as El, Eloy, Yve, Sabaoth, etc.  But the most common from what I've seen were Adonay or Alpha to Omega.  What's more, they were often preceded and/or ended with a + sign to denote holiness.

So let's take the 8 character of vM 8aiii and assume it actually is a number 8.  8 on the sphere is the letter t.  aiii is, in my above interpretation, the letter z or v/u/w (depending on the sphere referenced).

With 8 as a letter t, it could also be a +, and I think at the beginning of a word, depending on its follower, that that might be what this one is.  It's the symbol for a holy name.

Then take the aiii subset (a, b, f, z or v/u/w), and either way a to z,v,w, this kind of works for Alpha and Omega, meaning god.  A to Z with a tail (and beyond) (omega was the extra letter) or an actual v/w for omega.

I therefore think it's possible 8aiii stands for +Alpha and Omega. It would come mostly at the ends of lines or sentences because that's what an incantation or even just explanation would end with - the name of god. In the name of God.  Praise the Lord, etc.

Best guess, but just thought of this Sphere of Life and Death thing two days ago so would need to go through th text to see if that seems consistent.


RE: Sphere of Life and Death Cipher? - -JKP- - 03-08-2020

Quote:But the most common from what I've seen were Adonay or Alpha to Omega.  What's more, they were often preceded and/or ended with a + sign to denote holiness.


Tetragrammaton and Sabaoth were also very common.  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.


You're correct. It was very common for Deo Gratias (in various spellings), Amen, and Alpha Omega to be added to the ends of paragraphs, but the an/ain/aiin pattern occurs several times per line so it is probably not the best candidate for something that occurs at manuscript or paragraph ends.


RE: Sphere of Life and Death Cipher? - Aga Tentakulus - 03-08-2020

   
@JKP
By the way:
I took a quick look at your link. Because of the completeness.
The first of the three is "Caspar" written today Kaspar.
Here you have all three in the picture.
The crown of Kaspar is similar to the crown of VM.
I can't say if there is a connection.


RE: Sphere of Life and Death Cipher? - -JKP- - 03-08-2020

JKP blog Wrote:On the third line are the names iasp[er] (a reference to Caspermelthior and bathazar (probably Balthazar), the three wise men, followed by invocations to archangels, followed by crosses and more names, including the following interesting passage:


You're right, Aga, I should have written "Iaspar" and "Caspar" with "ar". I am used to the English spelling (Casper).


RE: Sphere of Life and Death Cipher? - MichelleL11 - 03-08-2020

(03-08-2020, 01:09 AM)Barbrey Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Before I go any further working on this, has anyone you guys know of already looked at this?  And do you think it a waste of time or impossible?  You can look up the sphere and info about it just by googling The Sphere of Life and Death.

Hi, Barbrey:

I wanted to sent my support to you for learning more about the unusual nature of the Voynich text and seeing if you can get your ideas to work.  There is much good information out there about the text and its characteristics that need to be taken into account as “decoding” is attempted and if there is something you’re having trouble finding you can ask and we’ll try to direct you.

I think it is safe to say that anything that associates letters and numbers in the time period of the carbon dating has been attempted - but there are so many possible combinations of how these associations could be used it could be that the right approach just hasn’t been found yet.  So no, looking at this is not a waste of time.

Good luck and feel free to update the group on your progress in this string.

Sincerely,

Michelle


RE: Sphere of Life and Death Cipher? - -JKP- - 03-08-2020

(03-08-2020, 07:37 PM)MichelleL11 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
I think it is safe to say that anything that associates letters and numbers in the time period of the carbon dating has been attempted - but there are so many possible combinations of how these associations could be used it could be that the right approach just hasn’t been found yet.  So no, looking at this is not a waste of time.

...


I agree with this.


RE: Sphere of Life and Death Cipher? - Barbrey - 10-08-2020

(03-08-2020, 06:32 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Quote:But the most common from what I've seen were Adonay or Alpha to Omega.  What's more, they were often preceded and/or ended with a + sign to denote holiness.


Tetragrammaton and Sabaoth were also very common.  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.


You're correct. It was very common for Deo Gratias (in various spellings), Amen, and Alpha Omega to be added to the ends of paragraphs, but the an/ain/aiin pattern occurs several times per line so it is probably not the best candidate for something that occurs at manuscript or paragraph ends.

Yes, I'm now more inclined to see it as the primary number system - for numbers not letters- I've been looking at the numbers on the rosette page and since I had identified the middle horizontal series as  8 a r, (8,7,5) and noticed the iii that feeds into it from both sides, I was struck by the 8 aiii with an r or v/d shape at the end.  Could this be similar to roman numerals but instead of before and after numerals we have an r or v shape signifying forward and backwards?  Have yu noticed this before, or can direct me to someone who has?

I'm off grid because of covid and only come into wifi access every few days at a corner store miles away, and can't spend hours in their parking lot!  Downloading is best for me if possibl e. I keep coming up with a theory only to find it's already been looked at.  I had modified my sphere of life with more regular numerology from Latin, only to find Brumbaugh had already thought of it, as shown in Mary D'Imperio's book.  But I thought there was a problem with his cipher, which included j, and u,v,w as separate entities.  Wouldn't that be wrong for back then?


RE: Sphere of Life and Death Cipher? - Barbrey - 10-08-2020

(03-08-2020, 07:37 PM)MichelleL11 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(03-08-2020, 01:09 AM)Barbrey Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Before I go any further working on this, has anyone you guys know of already looked at this?  And do you think it a waste of time or impossible?  You can look up the sphere and info about it just by googling The Sphere of Life and Death.

Hi, Barbrey:

I wanted to sent my support to you for learning more about the unusual nature of the Voynich text and seeing if you can get your ideas to work.  There is much good information out there about the text and its characteristics that need to be taken into account as “decoding” is attempted and if there is something you’re having trouble finding you can ask and we’ll try to direct you.

I think it is safe to say that anything that associates letters and numbers in the time period of the carbon dating has been attempted - but there are so many possible combinations of how these associations could be used it could be that the right approach just hasn’t been found yet.  So no, looking at this is not a waste of time.

Good luck and feel free to update the group on your progress in this string.

Sincerely,

Michelle

What an absolutely lovely reply!  Thank you Michelle!

I would really love to be pointed towards statistical data that makes a difference - or did to long-time Voynich researchers - and rosette page research that deals with its number symbolism, and its own Christian or her.etical symbolism as a composite system like a sphere of life and death in that it deals with with the life/birth/resurrection cycle, and meshing, of spirit and body/form.  I understand many have different interpretations and perhaps they're true too but this is my primary reading of it, so I would love to see any others with similar views.

This is actually what I'm quite good at, and manyof the details seem to be falling into place. A small one that gave me an aha moment: between the o and the thirteen pointed petal, top left and top middle,  were those two isolated areas with what looks like a temple composed of disconnected rings in one, and a pot of some kind in the other.  Matching it to the other symbolism, I think I finally found our girls in their barrels!  This is the birth of first form/spirit combo - the stars, and moving along to the 13 petal, there they would be imaginatively forming into the zodiac and the heavens.  Thus their sign is either the double loop TT or single IT figure depending, I think, whether they're planet or star formations.

Also, because of this, and other symvols such as o's, iii's and c's in interconnections, I stopped looking at t he rosette as simply nine but actually 25 points of connection to identify the pathways between as well as the spheres.  What's lovely is they seem to be matching up with 57v's two reversible, one clockwise, two reversible, 1 counterclockwise pattern on two of the rings.  If you know anyone else who has looked at this, please do let me know.  I am still identifying but would love to see it if anyone else has already done it.

Sorry for my late reply, by the way - I've had hardly any internet capability because I'm off-grid at my primitive vacation property in the wilds of British Columbia.