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+--- Thread: On purpose (/thread-3303.html)
RE: On purpose - -JKP- - 01-08-2020
I have a list of possible creators and reasons for existence of the VMS, but my favorite one is still my first impression... that this is a book of knowledge (an abridged version) and that it might never have been finished.
RE: On purpose - Mark Knowles - 01-08-2020
(31-07-2020, 11:18 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The simplest solution to the voynich - taking into account all the current most popular hypothesis - is that it a mid 15th century book of notes, written by several different people under one guidance (I have my own ideas about why this would be). Why the script? Again, several different ideas, but not relevant here.
So, fun? No. This concept as outlined above is outside the mindset of the era. It is also a hypothesis that does not obey Occam's razor.
I have mentioned a few times in this thread why and that I have not used the word "fun". Where is the evidence that doing such a thing for intellectual pleasure is outside the mindset of the era? I have provided contemporary quotes which seem consistent with that mindset. Why do you think it doesn't obey Occam's razor?
RE: On purpose - Mark Knowles - 01-08-2020
(01-08-2020, 02:04 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have a list of possible creators and reasons for existence of the VMS, but my favorite one is still my first impression... that this is a book of knowledge (an abridged version) and that it might never have been finished.
I have a list, though in truth it really contains only one entry. As mentioned determining "reasons" why people do things can be rather difficult. I certainly think "intellectual curiousity" was a much more significant factor than any financial motivations.
RE: On purpose - -JKP- - 01-08-2020
Intellectual curiosity is about observing and studying.
Creation of a manuscript is about learning the skills needed to create, finding the time to create, and sitting down and actually doing it.
It takes significant effort to create gall ink and pigments and to use quill pens and brushes to apply them to 232+ folios of skin. First you have to learn to always pull the pen in a certain direction or it will stutter and spatter the ink. Then you have to learn the right amount of pressure so the tines don't spread too little or too much. Many people have difficulty using metal calligraphy pens. A quill is harder because it flexes more and wears out quickly. The quill has to be recut every few lines. It has to be replaced every few pages. Notaries and manuscript scribes sometimes had dozens of quills at their side.
Significant planning is necessary to create something like the rosettes folio. The text has to fit in the rings, the different parts that relate to each other have to match up. This folio alone probably took several hours.
Reading a book takes a few days. Creating a book takes months or years and requires a dozen skills.
RE: On purpose - Mark Knowles - 02-08-2020
(01-08-2020, 10:34 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Intellectual curiosity is about observing and studying.
...
Creating a book takes months or years and requires a dozen skills.
I don't see that as a problem. I am sure Copernicus devoted years to satisfy his "intellectual curiousity".
RE: On purpose - Koen G - 02-08-2020
Copernicus was born in a completely different world than the makers of the Voynich.
RE: On purpose - Helmut Winkler - 02-08-2020
(02-08-2020, 10:05 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Copernicus was born in a completely different world than the makers of the Voynich.
I am sure you are completely wrong there
RE: On purpose - Mark Knowles - 02-08-2020
(02-08-2020, 10:05 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Copernicus was born in a completely different world than the makers of the Voynich.
St. Thomas Aquinas wrote about the importance of pursuing intellectual pleasure. He was born in 1225 and died in 1274. I know that is a different era, but surely attitudes cannot have changed so much between the time of Aquinas and Copernicus.
Do you have any evidence for the attitude of mind that you claim existed in the early 15th century?
RE: On purpose - -JKP- - 02-08-2020
Intellectual pleasure and physical creation and craftsmanship are not the same thing. The number of people who read novels greatly exceeds the number who create them. The number of people who wear clothes greatly exceeds the number of people who know how to design and sew them.
There is an aspect of every craft that is simply hard work, no matter how much you enjoy some aspects of the process and, if it goes well... the final result.
One of my friends who is a painter, quite a good one, said, "The general public has no idea how many paintings you have to throw out before you finish one that works."
Musicians understand how many hours of practice it takes in order to play well. Ten years of violin practice and you are still essentially a beginner.
RE: On purpose - Mark Knowles - 02-08-2020
(02-08-2020, 01:34 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Intellectual pleasure and physical creation and craftsmanship are not the same thing. The number of people who read novels greatly exceeds the number who create them. The number of people who wear clothes greatly exceeds the number of people who know how to design and sew them.
There is an aspect of every craft that is simply hard work, no matter how much you enjoy some aspects of the process and, if it goes well... the final result.
One of my friends who is a painter, quite a good one, said, "The general public has no idea how many paintings you have to throw out before you finish one that works."
Musicians understand how many hours of practice it takes in order to play well. Ten years of violin practice and you are still essentially a beginner.
Yes, but novelists exist and clothes designers exist and painters exist and musicians exist who do what they do for the sheer pleasure of it. So why not our manuscript writers. What you have said surely just reinforces my point.