The Voynich Ninja
oiin? - Printable Version

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oiin? - Koen G - 01-07-2020

I'm working intensively with Takahashi's transliteration of Q20 right now. I noticed that there are quite a number of [oiin] there. But upon closer inspection, many of those look like they might actually just be "regular" [aiin]? What do you think?

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RE: oiin? - Anton - 01-07-2020

Would you have pointed at exact occurrences in question, I could be more specific. 196 instances is quite a number to look them all through! Wink

But yes, there are errors in transcription. When you are to rely on some counts, it's better to check on your own, if possible. With quick checks over large sets this is, of course, impractical.


RE: oiin? - -JKP- - 02-07-2020

(01-07-2020, 09:51 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I'm working intensively with Takahashi's transliteration of Q20 right now. I noticed that there are quite a number of [oiin] there. But upon closer inspection, many of those look like they might actually just be "regular" [aiin]? What do you think?

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oiin is moderately common, even at the beginning of the manuscript. And even though o/a is sometimes ambiguous, most are written clearly. oiir also occurs occasionally. In the first 50 folios, there are about 100 instances of oii*:

[attachment=4508]


RE: oiin? - DONJCH - 02-07-2020

I knew it!
JKP has a labelled jpeg of every vord in the VM, ready to go...


RE: oiin? - -JKP- - 02-07-2020

Wink Smile


RE: oiin? - ReneZ - 02-07-2020

Could I please see the word that is under the paint in the red-green-blue circle on f67v2 Rolleyes Rolleyes 
(yes there is one)

On the topic, indeed, o and a are often hard to distinguish, but very often they are also clear.
a appears more frequently before strings of i than o does, but the latter does happen.
Other characters can also appear before strings of i but these are all much less frequent.
y never seems to be there. At least not in my transliteration.

All this most definitely means something.
The question is what.....


RE: oiin? - -JKP- - 02-07-2020

Rene, do you mean top-left on the green side?


RE: oiin? - ReneZ - 02-07-2020

(02-07-2020, 09:09 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Rene, do you mean top-left on the green side?

This was a bit tongue-in-cheek.
It looks roughly like this (above the faces), and is probably the least readable word in the MS:

[attachment=4509]

I will check again what Theodore Petersen has. He inspected the original in the 1930's for difficult readings.


RE: oiin? - -JKP- - 02-07-2020

This is a total guess, but it looks like B?ltom Esar9 (B?ltom Esarus) with the m having a descending curled tail. Maybe an abbreviated name? Like Bart[ol]omé Sarus?

[attachment=4510]

It doesn't look like Voynichese. It doesn't look like 15th-century script either. More like 16th century or early 17th century, although it's really hard to tell.

It's not readable in the current Beinecke scan. It's completely lost in the fold:

[attachment=4511]


RE: oiin? - bi3mw - 02-07-2020

(01-07-2020, 09:51 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I'm working intensively with Takahashi's transliteration of Q20 right now.

Did you get the transliterations directly from Takahashi's website or from the "Voynich information browser" ? There are generally considerable differences.