+- The Voynich Ninja (https://www.voynich.ninja)
+-- Forum: Voynich Research (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-27.html)
+--- Forum: Analysis of the text (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-41.html)
+--- Thread: Voynich anagramming (/thread-3262.html)
Voynich anagramming - Anton - 28-06-2020
No, this is not about plain text anagramming
I was thinking about Voynichese anagramming.
For example, if we have "otol", then are there occurrences of "loto" or "tloo"?
Are there cases when a vord is an anagram of another vord, and how many?
The VQP has a query for palindromes, but not for anagrams.
RE: Voynich anagramming - RobGea - 28-06-2020
Doable, but the number of permutations is factorial !!!
Ooh cool little trick here to reduce the number here:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: Voynich anagramming - nablator - 28-06-2020
There are a few, like:
ochey - cheoy
olkor - oklor
kchy - chky
dor - rod
dl - ld
RE: Voynich anagramming - bi3mw - 28-06-2020
The occurrence of the variations of "OTOL", there are only variants in longer words:
LOOT -
LOTO 1 lotos
LTOO -
OLOT 1 kolotam 1 olotchedy 1 otoloty 1 roloty
OLTO 1 koltoldy 1 oltoiin 1 otoltopar
OOLT -
OOTL -
OTLO 1 otlol 1 qotlolkal
TLOO -
TOLO 2 otolor 1 otoloaiin 1 otoloaram
1 otolodal 1 otolol 1 otololees
1 otolom 1 otolopaiin 1 otolosheey
1 otoloty 1 qotolo 1 qotolol
1 tolokeedy 1 tolol 1 tolor 1 tolos
TOOL -
RE: Voynich anagramming - Torsten - 28-06-2020
Such words exist:
7 chekody chokedy dcheoky dokechy ekchody kcheody ykechod
6 keeShy keShey kSheey Sheeky Shekey Shkeey
6 cheeky chekey chkeey kcheey kechey keechy
6 chekedy chkeedy dcheeky kcheedy kechedy keechdy
6 chetody chotedy chteody dcheoty tcheody teodchy
5 ekShy kShey Sheky Sheyk Shkey
5 chkoy choky kchoy ychok ykcho
5 cheky chkey kchey kechy ychek
5 cheedy chedey chdeey dcheey echedy
4 chety chtey tchey techy
4 cheoky choeky chokey ykecho
4 dolr dorl drol ldor
...
RE: Voynich anagramming - Anton - 28-06-2020
Thanks!
(I did not mean otol in particular, that was just for example).
RE: Voynich anagramming - bi3mw - 29-06-2020
You mean something like this? ( for example all permutations with "a" at the beginning of the word ):
The words are checked against a dictionary ( all words in VMS ).
RE: Voynich anagramming - doranchak - 29-06-2020
I got similar results (attached).
The file shows the anagram count, sorted letters shared by the anagrams, and the list of vords.
Sample output:
15: cdehkoy: [dokechy, dcheoky, okechdy, ykechod, oekchdy, chkeody, ockhedy, dchokey, chokedy, ekchody, ckheody, okchedy, chekody, kcheody, kechody]
10: eehkosy: [okeeshy, sheoeky, shoekey, oksheey, sheokey, ykeoshe, shokeey, osheeky, okeshey, ykesheo]
10: cdehoty: [dcheoty, ctheody, chotedy, tcheody, octhedy, chetody, oetchdy, otchedy, otechdy, chteody]
9: cehoty: [ytcheo, chotey, otchey, eocthy, tochey, cheoty, choety, octhey, otechy]
9: ceehky: [kcheey, ekchey, chekey, kechey, chkeey, cheeky, keechy, ckheey, eeckhy]
9: ceehkoy: [ockheey, okeechy, cheokey, okcheey, chokeey, choekey, okechey, kcheoey, ocheeky]
8: chkoy: [ockhy, chkoy, ykcho, okchy, kchoy, choky, ychok, ckhoy]
8: cehkoy: [ocheky, choeky, cheoky, okechy, chokey, okchey, ockhey, ykecho]
8: cehkloy: [okechly, olcheky, kcheoly, kolchey, olkchey, ycheolk, cheolky, olkechy]
8: adlor: [oldar, dolar, doral, lodar, orald, arodl, dalor, darol]
It would be interesting to compare anagram occurrence in Voynichese with other languages. Do they occur more/less often?
RE: Voynich anagramming - nablator - 29-06-2020
(29-06-2020, 01:07 AM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
There is a lot more than I thought, despite the "positional rigidity". Interesting...
Yet another paradoxical aspect of the VMS.
RE: Voynich anagramming - doranchak - 29-06-2020
(29-06-2020, 10:25 AM)doranchak Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It would be interesting to compare anagram occurrence in Voynichese with other languages. Do they occur more/less often?bi3mw
bi3mw's vord dictionary has 8078 entries.
So I looked at an English dictionary and generated anagrams of the top 8078 words (based on word occurrence frequency).
There seem to be far fewer anagrams, and they tend to be shorter (see attached).
There are only 333 distinct sets of anagrams in the English sample, vs 1311 in the Voynich sample.
Sample output:
4: opst: [stop, post, spot, tops]
4: enst: [tens, nets, nest, sent]
4: acers: [cares, races, scare, acres]
3: opsst: [spots, stops, posts]
3: now: [now, own, won]
3: lost: [lots, lost, slot]
3: epst: [pets, sept, step]
3: demo: [mode, dome, demo]
3: deit: [tide, tied, diet]
3: ceenrt: [center, centre, recent]
3: cdeersu: [rescued, reduces, secured]
What other "languages" are as anagram-positive as Voynichese?