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+--- Forum: Analysis of the text (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-41.html)
+--- Thread: Vord length distribution (/thread-3261.html)
RE: Vord length distribution - Koen G - 29-06-2020
You should think of a diphthong as one vowel, which is why it makes one syllable.
The difference between a regular vowel and a diphthong is that when pronouncing a regular vowel, your mouth remains the same: aaaaaaaa.
But when pronouncing a diphthong, you need to move your mouth a little bit. For example, when you pronounce the "ou" in "sound", the diphthong travels from the back to the front of your mouth.
The "oo" in "cooperate" is not a diphthong, these are two syllables. You say [ koh-op-uh-reyt ].
The first "o" in "cooperate" is a diphthong, it should be pronounced with a w-like sound at the end. Even though this is pronounced as a diphthong, it is written as one letter.
The "ay" in "say" is a diphthong; you don't pronounce the "a" and the "y" separately, they glide as one sound.
The "ea" in "bleak" is a digraph, two letters represent one sound.
RE: Vord length distribution - Anton - 29-06-2020
I always thought that when pronouncing "sound", I'm pronouncing two vowels, not one.
I don't catch the difference between two successive vowels and a diphtong.
OK, it goes a bit offtopic... That's clearly not my area!
RE: Vord length distribution - aStobbart - 29-06-2020
As Saussure used to say, the written and spoken language are two totally different worlds. Trying to study the spoken language as a mere auditive representation of text was the most important mistake commited by pre-modern linguists.
RE: Vord length distribution - -JKP- - 29-06-2020
(29-06-2020, 07:18 PM)Alin_J Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
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Regarding treating certain or uncertain spaces as word-separators, for the 101 transcription if you treat them as real separators you get 9905 different word-types but not treating them as real spaces (concatenating "word parts") you get 10641 different word-types, a significant number more. I have therefore subsequently treated uncertain spaces as real separators. My argument is that if these spaces would have been random mistakes/seemingly spaces they would have likely lead to more different word-types when treating them as separators, not less, because they would shop off many legit word-types into new ones. Instead, concatenating real word-types randomly should lead to more word-types which is what is also observed for the text.
I find this one of the most difficult parts of creating a VMS transcript, the evaluation of spaces. I don't think the half-spaces are random mistakes. They tend to break in the same places with reference to the glyphs. Not always, but much of the time.
And, as in the two examples, I posted above, the narrow spaces, even though they are clearly visible, are substantially narrower than the wide spaces on either side (and narrower than the other spaces on the line). What I can't tell is if this is an unconscious thought-process being revealed (the perception of certain clusters as separate from each other in some way), or if there is a deliberate creation of two kinds of spaces.
RE: Vord length distribution - Anton - 29-06-2020
(29-06-2020, 11:27 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.the perception of certain clusters as separate from each other in some way
I think so. And that is why spaces are so uncertain. They did not have to care much about them.