f20v - Did the scribe make a mistake? - Printable Version +- The Voynich Ninja (https://www.voynich.ninja) +-- Forum: Voynich Research (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-27.html) +--- Forum: Analysis of the text (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-41.html) +--- Thread: f20v - Did the scribe make a mistake? (/thread-3259.html) |
RE: f20v - Did the scribe make a mistake? - bunny - 03-07-2020 (29-06-2020, 11:45 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Strikeouts are uncommon in medieval manuscripts. I rarely see them even though I look at manuscripts every day. Maybe uncommon but not unused and the VM is not your average manuscript. Scraping, overpainting+writing, expunctuation, signes de renvoi and strikeouts (not highlight type) in various manuscripts. The missal of Bishop Antonio Scorampi f58 shows plain old scribble. The problem with the VM having errors is that they would be so few and so unclearly corrected as to not be errors. If you correct something a clue ought to be left as to how to read the new word or where an insertion goes. Excluding plain messy writing blobs and corrected letters. Bunny RE: f20v - Did the scribe make a mistake? - bunny - 03-07-2020 Quote:The small superscripted 9 shape is the most common medieval abbreviation in languages that use Latin characters. It was so common that pen tests often included it in the alphabet after the letter z. So common that even unabbreviated text sometimes used this one abbreviation. So common that the modern apostrophe is shaped somewhat the same way. There are of course many parts that could be referencing medieval shorthand like the 9, but the small superscript 2 = ur/tur seems unlikely otherwise it would occur more frequently than 1-3 times in a whole manuscript? I have no problem the manuscript being read in Latin but shorthand needs to occur frequently if to be bothered with at all, and if they are "known" contractions then computer analysis of all possible other letter substitution should have given something up by now, assuming of course it is medieval at all and Latin. The weirdos on f1 for example though are found across many cultures and languages as marginalia, not just Latin. If it is pure Latin and has common scribal contractions then I expect it to be translated as such and in full already, so why not? Bunny RE: f20v - Did the scribe make a mistake? - -JKP- - 03-07-2020 bunny, if you run your cursor across the part you quoted (in post #22) and then click the mouth bubble icon, it will turn it into a quote. The way you have it now, readers can't tell which part is the quote and which part is your reply. (03-07-2020, 06:11 PM)bunny Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ... There are of course many parts that could be referencing medieval shorthand like the 9, but the small superscript 2 = ur/tur seems unlikely otherwise it would occur more frequently than 1-3 times in a whole manuscript? I have no problem the manuscript being read in Latin but shorthand needs to occur frequently if to be bothered with at all, and if they are "known" contractions then computer analysis of all possible other letter substitution should have given something up by now, assuming of course it is medieval at all and Latin. The weirdos on f1 for example though are found across many cultures and languages as marginalia, not just Latin. If it is pure Latin and has common scribal contractions then I expect it to be translated as such and in full already, so why not? Bunny Bunny, I never said anything about reading the VMS in Latin. I pointed out shapes in the VMS that have shape-mates in Latin and informed readers about what it means in languages that use the Latin character set. Please do not confuse my comments about shape-mates with assumptions about language. Also, when I am talking about Latin characters, I am not necessarily talking about Latin language. The Latin characters were used (and are still used) to write many languages. Also shorthand is not the same as medieval scribal abbreviations. The scribal abbreviations were common and known by almost all scribes. Shorthand systems existed also, but they are quite different from the regular scribal abbreviations and many scribes did not know them. RE: f20v - Did the scribe make a mistake? - bunny - 03-07-2020 Quote:[quote="-JKP-" pid='38552' dateline='1593799438'] Ha I think I have got it now? I guess you have discovered I struggle with anything beyond pen and paper, actually even pen and paper. Bunny RE: f20v - Did the scribe make a mistake? - bunny - 03-07-2020 Quote:Bunny, I never said anything about reading the VMS in Latin. I pointed out shapes in the VMS that have shape-mates in Latin and informed readers about what it means in languages that use the Latin character set. Please do not confuse my comments about shape-mates with assumptions about language. Humblest apologies Bunny RE: f20v - Did the scribe make a mistake? - -JKP- - 04-07-2020 It's a problem I struggle with constantly on the forum and on blog comments, Bunny. I mention Latin characters and people assume I mean Latin when I do not. It's an important distinction so I want to make sure there are no misunderstandings. Glad you figured out the comment thingie. It's pretty handy, actually. |