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+--- Thread: The sequence of images (/thread-3256.html)
RE: The sequence of images - R. Sale - 01-07-2020
If anyone has information to the contrary, please contribute.
According to prevailing sources mermaids and sirens are human (generally female) from the waist up and fish or something else from the waist down.
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In other words, the dividing line is at the waist. The VMs creature (f79v) clearly shows it has thighs. Therefore it is something else.
Could it be a woman entering or exiting a fish's mouth, i.e. a female Jonah? If there is such a story, please post it.
There is a myth about a creature that changes back and forth from a fully human, female appearance to a half human, half draconian / reptilian / ichthyological creature every week. That is Melusine. How can an artist represent that transformation is a single image? It's easy to represent one version or the other, but how to represent the transition?
Historical information seems to show that the story of Melusine as an ancestress to the different Valois lines was a tradition that was taken fairly seriously. Other family lines had similar claims of descent from *similar* sources, but the Valois choice seems more likely based on other connections to the dukes of Berry and Burgundy.
If there is some other interpretation that has been overlooked, please enter it into the discussion.
RE: The sequence of images - Aga Tentakulus - 01-07-2020
A melusine is usually represented by a dragon or snake body.
If she is represented as a fish she has 2 fins. But surely she is not in a fish mouth.
It is not a Melusine. Not even similar, when I look at it closely.
RE: The sequence of images - R. Sale - 01-07-2020
Then don't look too closely, because you will run into the problem of VMs ambiguity.
Is there a better alternative?
RE: The sequence of images - Aga Tentakulus - 01-07-2020
A mermaid has a fish tail for legs.
But in the VM you can see exactly that she is stuck in a fish mouth.
What is the story or meaning when a nymph is swallowed by a big fish without the story of Jonas.
I have no idea.
RE: The sequence of images - R. Sale - 01-07-2020
Mermaids don't have legs. Who says she is stuck? Perhaps she is in the process of being swallowed or coughed up, a situation somewhat similar to the weekly transformation of Melusine.
If you've gone through the VMs cosmic comparison, it should be fairly clear that similarity of appearance is not a strong factor in the VMs, and seems in some instances to have been actively avoided. That may also apply here.
History and tradition suggest to me that Melusine is a strong possible interpretation, and the "I don't know" alternative really doesn't provide anything to work with. Still, nothing VMs is carved in stone, and an open mind is usually the best approach.
RE: The sequence of images - Aga Tentakulus - 01-07-2020
Mermaids don't have legs. Who says she is stuck?
Legs not found!
RE: The sequence of images - Tobias - 01-07-2020
Having followed the Melusine discussion for a while now, I must say I understand the appeal. Combined with the other clues that seem to fit well in this general context of interpretation, it is the most convincing theory so far, for me at least.
The process of stepping out of the animal skin was, to my knowledge, not unusual befor the more modern storys about wherewolves etc startet to use the theme of actual shapeshifting.
The only other fitting storys I can think of is the god Loki changing into a salmon or the christian (or maybe even older?) metaphor for reincarnation (based on the Jona story, but applied to some other female figure).
RE: The sequence of images - aStobbart - 01-07-2020
There is also the concept of uroboros, it is an alchemical sing represented as a snake/dragon eating it's own tail. Maybe as a fish/sea monster too.
As I understand, the uoroboros usually represents infinity or recursivity
Maybe this is a different take on this concept? The recursion represented by the uroboros is broken here, and a nimph emerges from inside the uroboros.
RE: The sequence of images - aStobbart - 01-07-2020
Maybe there should be a different topic for the mermaid?
Here is an example of a mermaid from an early 14th century bestiary from England
![[Image: img765.jpg]](http://bestiary.ca/beastimage/img765.jpg)
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RE: The sequence of images - -JKP- - 01-07-2020
I'm pretty sure we have a thread with many mermaid pics. Here's one thread, but I think there is another:
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I also have a file full of them, about 35 images, plus pics of melusines and another 40 pics of Jonah emerging or being swallowed by a "fish".