The Voynich Ninja
Burma Shave - Printable Version

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RE: Burma Shave - R. Sale - 23-06-2020

Other possibilities are always open for consideration. Does the image of Jonah, a female Jonah, have any particular affinity for Paris in 1430-1440? Does Jonah have any potential affinity for a pangolin or an armadillo? I suppose she could be linked with an image of the Agnus Dei since both are generally religious. Does Jonah have any connection to the Golden Fleece?

Does't the Valois interpretation of Melusine and the Golden Fleece connection to Burgundy ( + the Apocalypse of S Jean) create a situation where Occam's razor might be reasonably applied? [More shaving references.]

RE: Burma Shave - Koen G - 23-06-2020

Maybe... but I'm more of a 1400-1430 kind of guy Wink

I'm not saying the character is Jonah, in fact I think it's something else. But it is very ambiguous and quite a lot of the ambiguity falls on the side of the Jonah archetype rather than any kind of mermaid.

Mermaids are vain creatures, obsessed with combing their hair. Which they wear loose (the harlots!) to seduce men. In medieval depictions, they often come with a mirror and a comb.

The VM figure, not so much. This hair style is typical for VM men. Granted, the body appears female, but the head is male. So androgyny, precisely in the figure where we are debating whether the inspiration is Jonah or Melusina.

RE: Burma Shave - R. Sale - 24-06-2020

Just to be clear. Melusine is not a mermaid. Mermaids don't turn into dragons, and mermaids don't fly. Melusine clearly does both.

If the goal is to obfuscate an illustration for the sake of disguise, ambiguity is just the thing to make it happen.

RE: Burma Shave - DONJCH - 24-06-2020

(23-06-2020, 08:58 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I also don't want to exclude the possibility that the VM plays both the fish and mermaid card at the same time.
Yes, I'm right with you on the multiple tracks, I begin to think that this is a deliberate ploy by the artist, perhaps for education and entertainment. "How many layers can I pack in here?"

It certainly keeps us entertained.

RE: Burma Shave - davidjackson - 24-06-2020

I think we're taking this out of context (hah!) 
You have to look at the sequence of images, not each one individually! 
Starting from bottom right to top it's clearly an ascent of women story. 
We have the beasts at the pond, representing the base populace, wallowing. 
Then that woman emerges into the ascendent, casting off her animal over skin and becoming fully human. 
Then above her we see several layers of women representing the different levels that humanity can aspire to. 
It's a clear morality story.

RE: Burma Shave - R. Sale - 24-06-2020

I am borrowing David's line:

"You have to look at the sequence of images, not each one individually! "

For a new thread.

RE: Burma Shave - Linda - 24-06-2020

(24-06-2020, 06:52 AM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I think we're taking this out of context (hah!) 
You have to look at the sequence of images, not each one individually! 
Starting from bottom right to top it's clearly an ascent of women story. 
We have the beasts at the pond, representing the base populace, wallowing. 
Then that woman emerges into the ascendent, casting off her animal over skin and becoming fully human. 
Then above her we see several layers of women representing the different levels that humanity can aspire to. 
It's a clear morality story.

The Anaximander origin story might fit into that narrative, where humans were incubated in fish until they were fully grown, due to the earth being different than it is today and they needed to be protected. It might be that she represents one of the first modern humans. Once mature they could step out onto the land. It may also be why the fish nymph is androgenous?

For me the narrative had always gone the opposite direction in terms of the geography tour, but perhaps it does go in the direction you mention in terms of history of human migration.

There is also one of the animals that has its head in the water, and the head is coloured differently. Could this explain whales or dolphins, mammals that went back to live in the water? Funny that reptiles, fish, and mammals all seem to be represented. It does seem to call evolution to mind. I am not sure about the morality story as i see the other women as denoting other things but it is making some other ideas bounce around for me so thanks for that!

RE: Burma Shave - Linda - 24-06-2020

(23-06-2020, 06:25 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(23-06-2020, 05:56 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Given these conditions at the time of its creation, the primary interpretation of the illustration of Harley 334 f. 57 has to be a representation of Melusine, because that was the semiotic environment of that time and location.

Hello R. Sale,

No, it does not have to be Mélusine. The text to the right says something about the sea ("mer") and it is a typical depiction of the sea with perfectly normal fish and mermaids. EDIT: it starts with "En la mer dynde" (in the sea of India) - old name of the Arabian sea - then I can't read much, something about exotic fish it seems... the title is "de poissons dynde" (about the fish of India).
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Similar legends existed elsewhere than Lusignan (Poitou), especially "fish-tail" variants of the story, the dragon-tail lady of Lusignan popularized by Jean d'Arras being a late avatar of much older and widespread legends. Wikipedia has a simplified and non-exhausitive map (see locations in the text):

[Image: 1024px-Karte_verbreitung_melusine.svg.png]

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Thanks for pointing out en la mer dynde meaning the Arabian sea or Indian ocean,  it fits well with the geography i believe is featured on the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. page (which isn't on that map).  The pictures in that manuscript do have other similarities going on with the vms.

RE: Burma Shave - davidjackson - 24-06-2020

I had to look up Anaximander.
But I'm afraid I don't see the connection.
It's a clear morality story, depicted backwards - we start bottom right and go up to the top left, although the holy water falls the other way.
We start off with being beasts in the big pool. In the corner we see a woman ascending, leaving her beast form and becoming human.
[Image: image.jpg?q=f79v-340-1478-1105-467]

We then see three levels of humans. The normal enlightened person, touching the water that falls from above.
[Image: image.jpg?q=f79v-285-861-397-406]

The next level is the nymph with a ring, one step below the final level, who receives the water directly into her head
[Image: image.jpg?q=f79v-309-342-307-445]

And finally we have the top divine person, holding a cross, standing in the holy water, which clearly comes from a cloud which is probably divine.
[Image: image.jpg?q=f79v-258-40-428-413]

RE: Burma Shave - Koen G - 24-06-2020

The interpretation of the bottom nymph as someone emerging (or at least desiring to emerge) from a beastly level does take a lot of things into account. This plays on the opposition human-beast, as the figure does.